Peter Boyles Show - Monday, February 15, 1999

"Boyles - Monday"
Posted by Byron on 07:27:00 2/15/99
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Wow. I actually was able to access the forum, which I wasn't when the Boyles show started. Needless to say, he's talking case the entire show, and Craig Silverman has already been on.

Caller - I just wanted to verify what Barbara Fernie said about the pry marks.

PB - This is Linda Hoffman Pugh. You can now talk about the case?

LHP - I can't talk about the GJ, but I can talk about this point.

PB - Have you read the Newsweek piece?

LHP - No.

PB - At the home of John and Barbara Fernie, Patsy stood up and offered condolences. (Talking about Pam abd Patsy and dehydration and that PR knew who killed JBR - missed most of it) Let me read what NW has to say about you. They had brought several thick books about crime-scene photos, they showed her a pic of JBR's thermal blanket, it had stains on it, they showed her a pic of JBR's bed, looking at the comforter, the bed looked barely disturbed

LHP - That was my feeling, that the blanket was in the dryer. I think the blanket wasn't on her bed that night. I don't think a stranger would know where the blanket was. the R's didn't even have a hamper, they just left clothes lying around.

PB - Only you and PR knew it was in there. How do you feel about how the R's are trying to put the blame on you?

LHP - It hurts a lot.

PB - YOu were extremely loyal to her.

LHP - I don't believe the intruder theory at all. That door they're talking about was like that for months.

PB - Haddon was either uninformed or was lying to protect his client.

LHP - That door was like that for months before JBR was murdered.

PB - What has changed in your mind in the last 28 months.

LHP - The R's have lied about numerous things. They've lied about the door, they lied about the knife, they lied about the Swiss army knife. I put in the cupboard myself.

PB - What do you know about bed-wetting? LHP is with us, and she is significant. Is the noose tightening?

(PB's intro was very intense. He talked about the Newsweek, Ramsey Mountain News connection to Schiller, but felt that based upon the excerpts, the Schiller book is objective. He talked about Miss Kit, and how she is quoted talking about the dance routines and her part in teaching them, he said everybody needs to pick up this issue, he had Silverman on discussing the case, he speculated that maybe the lawyers are in Atlanta preparing the R's for GJ testifying or possibly preparing them for indictment (the latter Silverman thinks is unlikely) etc. LOTS was talked about, but combining my lack of sleep and the frustration of trying to access the forum, I didn't hear it all)


2. "cont"
Posted by Byron on 07:40:42 2/15/99
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PB - How did they treat bedwetting?

LHP - It didn't come up much, but every time I came in the sheets were already off the bed.

PB - How was PR dealing with it, was she getting more frustrated?

LHP - There's no way JR could be a father and not know about it.

PB - You know at least of three lies. Why would the R's come out with the pry marks as evidence of an intruder. They knew about the Swiss army knife. People need to hear this, particularly the people who believe, for whatever the hell reason, well I don't know why they believe it...

LHP - I asked PR for a loan. I think she must have, because the police asked me about it.

PBn - She says you owe her money.

LHP - She owes ME money.

PB - I asked her about the front door. PR told me all the doors were locked. They also attempted to make your husband a suspect as well.

LHP - He had only been in the house four times. One time to fix closet doors, and one time to put up Christmas lights. Everybody who knows us knows we didn't kill JBR. I have never hurt a child and never would. I loved the whole family.

PB - What is Burke like?

LHP - He's a real quiet little boy.

PB - What have you come away with in this?

LHP - We've been hurt. I loved Patsy so much, I would have done anything for her.

PB - You know she knows you didn't do this. She's trying to set somebody up. This doesn't have anything to do with you, and she must be going through her own personal hell.

LHP - I really cared about her. (crying) I don't believe the blanket was on the bed. There were only two people who knew...

PB - What about the little room?

LHP - I never even went inside of the room. I opened the door once.

PB - Did Schiller come and talk to you?

LHP - Yes, he did.

PB - This is all coming to a head. I spoke with Chuck Green, and thinks so as well.


3. "Morning Greenleaf"
Posted by Byron on 07:50:36 2/15/99
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I really hope Panico is able to take over (and I also hope for her good health), 'cause I'm just about out the door, and the case will be discussed the entire show. I'll try to listen at work, but, if necessary, my notes won't be up until late afternoon.

PB - This is Laurie on a cell phone.

Laurie - This is something I haven't heard. There are only two reasons a child defecates at that age. Either food allergies, or severe psychological trauma...

PB - ...sexual abuse

Laurie - If there were no food allergies, what are we to believe...

(gotta go - too bad I don't have a government job)


4. "I'm here"
Posted by Panico on 08:03:13 2/15/99
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just barely.

"It's the tough side of Patsy Ramsey" (this coming from newscaster).

A bunch of guests coming--Carol McKinley, Cyril Wecht, maybe Frank Coffman, etc.

5. "More"
Posted by Panico on 08:05:53 2/15/99
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PB was saying that Charlie Brennan has done just excellent work on this case----that he'd taken a year off and has been working with Schiller. Says he understands Boulder is going to get roughed up in this book.


7. "More"
Posted by Panico on 08:20:55 2/15/99
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PB: A remarkable morning in the Ramsey case. The Rocky Mountain News has made a deal with Schiller---that's why we're getting all the news through them--that explain why in the Denver Post, it's buried on page 5. We spoke with Linda Hoffman Pugh this am--

Caller: headline on Camera is "Deputies Believe Patsy Is Capable of ---- and Kill"

PB: Apparently they got through to Haney and that's where they got the info.

Caller: I've been listening since this started, and have called you a couple of times in the last couple of years, but I've never heard anyone talk about the 911 call the night of the Christmas party.

PB: I don't think those tapes have ever gotten out. I'd think that if anybody has been able to do that it would have been Charlie and Schiller. I think we'll all be able to buy Schiller's book either Wednesday nite or Thursday morning, and believe me I'll be the first in line. I understand Alex Hunter will be getting an advance copy tomorrow.

PB: Linda Hoffman Pugh can disprove three major statements that R's and attorneys have made. Story is that R's attorneys went to Atlanta to meet with R's. Everybody in the city is talking about this---it's interesting to see who's still standing. Asking callers---do you think this is coming to a head. Craig Silverman and I talked about this---I think people were so mixed about the Clinton case, but not too many people are mixed on this. People clearly wanted Clintont o get off---I don't see that in this. Joinins us is Carol McKinley---talk about the heavy lifting. What a weekend---how many breakfasts did you go to?

CM: I didn't--it was my son's birthday---

PB: Did you hear Linda Hoffman Pugh this am?

CM: Yes, and I was surprised as heck----she had told me earlier that she would do any interviews unless she was paid.

PB: Did you get an advance on the book?

CM: Yes--it's coming to my house today. He was really paranoid while he was writing this--it was shrink wrapped the minute it was finished.

PB: This stuff gets heat wrapped about the book coming off the press.

CM: He was so paranoid about the tabs stealing his stuff while he was writing it---- he had a camera across the street focused on his doorknob---and if anybody turned the doorknob, it would show on camera. They're laughing about "Picture of Peter" "Picture of Tom Koby" "Picture of Patsy Ramsey" A lot of Boulder people are not happy about this book writing.

PB: Here's a question--you're a juror--are you going to read the book?

CM; They're being asked not to---They're asked not to listen to Carol, talk radio etc. They're asked to pay attention only to the facts.

Break


9. "More"
Posted by Panico on 08:36:07 2/15/99
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Has been opening segments playing tape of John saying "I don't know that she wet her bed much--I don't remember that"

PB: You have a 4 part series coming on Fox

CM: It starts tomorrow---it's a lot like this book--not much new--will have an interview with Schiller, am flying to New York Wednesday for that. I understand that we're 2nd in line on that.

PB: I've been told they're already going to the 2nd printing.

CM: It's very well done. Imagine how Charlie felt having to sit on his hands knowing all of this.

PB: Listen to them denying now.

CM: I'm sure Schiller stands behind his interviews.

PB: Miss Kitt----she was fabulous, I have looked at the video a number of times and they made her look like a clown. The pageants were Patsy's gig. They were her alter-ego.

CM: This was very surprising to me, because when I've talked to Miss Kitt, she was always very supportive of the pageants. They're talking in the book that on 3rd day, they saw Patsy's other side. And you know, that doesn't prove anything.

PB: But the amazing amount of evidence that points only to R's.

CM; There's not one big thing that will point to the murderer---but both the murder and the town seem perfect -- but they're not.

PB: How much are you played in the book?

CM: Larry tells me that I'm representing mainstream media--and Jeff Shapiro representing the tabs---but I really don't know. Remember that all these books are going to come out--ratings---- Clinton's gone---hopefully there will be an indictment--but there might not be.

PB: The pressure on Alex Hunter is immense. As we know the attorneys for R's flew to Atlanta--and you were the first to tell me that last week---I asked if they were going down to prep them for GJ for to get them emotionally ready to be indicted

CM; Here's one last thing to leave you with. Why hasn't Lou Smit testified? I believe he wants to get in front of the GJ and I think his hands are tied. I don't think Steve Thomas has been in yet either, and I know he wants to. BTW, Nedra is sick, but is getting better.

CM had to leave

PB: 28 months since she was found--no arrests. Look at that photo on cover of RMN---so very beautiful and so tragic.


11. "More" Posted by Panico on 08:55:32 2/15/99
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Caller: On the Lou Smit thing, Lou was such a tremendous believer that if God had saved Patsy from Stage IV cancer, it wouldn't have been to murder JB--did you get that?

PB: This book is really THE FIRST---this is a book that will get national attention---this may be the first of a series of great books--excellent books--I mean well put together on this murder--the investigative part. They claim they did 571 interviews to re-construct this. Boy, that's a lot of work. And in fairness, they took a long time to do this. And everything I've read before, I like.

Caller: On Thomas resignation---everyone was surprised about the cameras in their house, I was wondering, what was the stuff surrounding that incident that made him bring it to light in that letter?

PB: I think it was so electrifying---he's the one that was on the job and claims to have quit because he claims the DA would not do the right thing. But Steve Thomas is ill--he has the same illness that killed his mom--and he cannot be a cop. On the cameras---- I spoke to some people were who were not pro-Ramseys---who say that the cameras were not there to watch the cops. These people told me that right after JT tried to do the arson job---that the cameras weren't hidden in the air ducts or anything--they were simply to see who was coming up around the house---it's a logical thing.

Caller: So you're saying you think Steve Thomas pulled this out of context?

PB: Yeah, I do think so. I believe R's are guilty in this whole thing---but I don't believe that they put the cameras there to spy on the cops. Everybody in the media chased it--we all chased it, and anybody that tells you they didn't is lying. But the bottom line was that the cameras were more of a protection for the property. I would go up there and sit in the car in the alley---and try to get a handle on this. Ultimately, there were tours given--now there's even a cyber tour you can take of the house. People were trying to find ways to look in and see in the house.

Boulder: For a long time, stuff could be stuffed under things...

PB: Yeah, this thing bitch-slapped Boulder. Look at it. The mayor's gone, half the council is gone. If there's going to be a person when this is said and done, that it'll be said it's this person's fault, it will be Tom Koby. This was Tom Koby's team---they went into that house and treated it like 'tele tubbies' Another thing that is a credit to Schiller and Charlie---this is the detective in the house, Mason and Walker arrived at Ramsey house, first they looked at the body, a noose around her neck, they went downstiars and looked at the wine cellar, Mason said there was something about the scene that didn't look right---and then they heard John on the phone talking to his pilot on the phone----then John told them that he would be leaving---and Walker told him he couldn't leave. I mean this is crazy---if they had just found your kid's body---would you be planning to leave?

Julie Hayden coming up


12. "More"
Posted by Panico on 09:01:57 2/15/99
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PB: Right after 8:00 news, we'll have Julie Hayden---she's had a conversation with Schiller---hang onto your hats--she's gonna blow your head off with what she has to say.


16. "More"
Posted by Panico on 09:23:29 2/15/99
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Geez----is everybody sleepin in cuz it's a holiday?

PB: The walls are starting to come down. Joining us from newsroom of Channel 7, Julie Hayden. Boy, what a morning.

JH: I'll tell ya what!

PB: You have a copy of the book yet?

JH: No, but ABC does, and they've been sending me some excerpts that aren't in the papers. These are only excerpts---all of this is bad neews for DA Alex Hunter. The ones I have have a lot of info about a conversations that Alex Hunter has had with Jeff Shapiro. I've never even heard of a DA acting the way Shapiro says Hunter has acted with him. I talked with Schiller this morning about it and he says it is true. I mean, they wouldn't be publishing this is it isn't true.

PB: You got light years more than I got. Reading: "On afternoon of 12/-- Pam Griffin touched Patsy's skin and realized she was dehydrated--and she brought her some water and told her she should brush her hair, but Patsy rose to greet each new caller--then Patsy looked at Pam and said "Can't you fix this for me" Pam said that she felt at the time that Patsy knew who killed JB. Now Pam is denying she said this.

JH: Larry Schiller is very very good. He talked to these people for hours and hours. They had legal people scrutinize this book.

PB: My understanding of his work is that this guy is good.

JH: He is. He's good. Sometimes people wish they hadn't said certain things---but I sense it is not common to have done interviews and then ......

PB: What is it that's said in Schiller's book about Shapiro and Hunter, then Hunter and Koby?

JH: One of the thing is that Shapiro had this unprecedented access to Hunter----talking about something that came up about Eller--Shapiro saying should we cover this, Hunter saying yeah, it's his turn--I can get you information and resume..... If this is true---and we haven't heard from Hunter's office. There was another part where they're talking about Shapiro being in Hunter's office, and Hunter saying he didn't have the answer, but Hunter picked up the phone and called Haddon's office---doing Shapiro's work and getting the answer to give to them. This is the most bizarre of all and I have confirmed that this is true--that the PD were using Shapiro as an informant--that they had length conversations----that PD were wearing wires and taping entire conversations---and I confirmed this with Shapiro this morning---he did not know they were wearing wires. And Schiller stands behind this too. When Koby was chief,----he put down tape recorder in front of Schiller and played tape of Shapiro spilling the beans.

PB has been literally gasping while hearing this---

JH: When you have PD secretly taping an informant and then playing the tape for the DA.

PB: To bring in, if it's true, a tabloid reporter, then offering him up to the chief investigator to be trahsed in the tabs. This isn't Shapiro's fault, by the way.

JH: No, it was his job.

PB: If Hunter offered up Eller to Shapiro, then calls Haddon to get info------

JH: It sure raises questions about the wisdom with which this whole thing was handled.

PB: Their spokesperson is Bob Grant---I wonder what he will have to say. We'll all be chasing stories all day.

JH: Schiller says he suspects that Hunter is not going to come out---Schiller says, when you're done reading the book, you're going to know who killed JonBenet and how it was done.

Taking break----------WOWEEEEEEE-----TAKE THAT MASKED MAN!


19. "More"
Posted by Panico on 09:30:09 2/15/99
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Man----that last segment was a blockbuster! Everything I've heard this morning shoots the pee-waddin' out of what MM has been saying about Schiller and about Alex Hunter----frankly I'm surprised PB was considering having him on the show after all the dissing MM has been doing to him. And Alex Hunter-----be sure--your sins will find you out!


21. "More"
Posted by Panico on 09:37:31 2/15/99
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PB: This is a sad morning. If these things are ture--it's sad. We'll have Jeff Shapiro with us tomorrow morning. Under the circumstances, we have Craig Silverman back with us

CS: We tried to tell you, Peter----this is the news. Yesterday was the tease. This is acurate. Bill Owens is going to receive political pressure.

PB: Julie, you have pages that no one else has, right?

JH: Yes, ABC has the book--and they faxed me some pages from the book that hasn't been released, that talk about the relationship between Shapiro and Hunter--I called Schiller and he verified that they are indeed pages from his book.

CS: There was an article in Newsweek not too long ago that Shapiro thinks that Rams are innocent and now here he is in cahoots with Alex Hunter.

JH: Alex is talking about hating John Eller and asking Shapiro to rip Eller to shreds and that he'll get info for him.

CS: And that story you told about Brian Morgan (John's lawyer)---a couple of months ago Alex Hunter said to the press---"I don't even know Hal Haddon" well, that may be true, but what about Brian Morgan?

JH: And what about Mike Bynum who started his career in Alex Hunter's office?

PB: What about John Eller--and he knew in his heart of hearts that these people killed their kid---and now we hear that Eller was offering out the info-----

JH: And Hunter's office hasn't been able to respond

PB: I think they'll be in a huddle today--they'll have to repond tomorrow

CS:It was clear to me that Schiller has gotten into Hunter

PB: Everyone hold your water--hold your fire--we'll be right back with Jeff Shapiro


33. "More"
Posted by Panico on 09:59:48 2/15/99
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PB: Another one of those bombshell days in the Ramsey case. The lines are jammed--we're not going to get to the calls. Playing out in all of this---is Jeff Shapiro---and Craig Silverman is still here.

PB: Silverman and I have not read this--what does is say in Schiller's book about you and Hunter?

JS: I think what it says is that I had pretty deep access to Hunter---

CS: Did you interview with Schiller?

JS: I did numberous interviews with Schiller.

CS: So Schiller got this info from you?

JS: Yes--

CS: How did you become so tight with Alex Hunter?

JS: I tracked down a lot of evidence and continued to bring them information, and little by little...

PB: Did Alex Hunter offer you Eller's personal records and files?

JS: Let me tell you this much--someone did, let me tell you this--Schiller is a very accurate historian and rarely makes a mistakes.

CS: He tried to smear John Eller

PB: If that's true---Bill Owens has to move within the next 48 hours----

JS: Like I said, someone did do these things. People who had official positions, reality started to shift into fantasty---I think people started to lose their grip on reality. I think Steve Thomas was one of the few----but his passion was so intense it overtook him. I don't think there's anyone that has kept a perfect perception---we felt so frustrated because there was no solution---that we kinda started doing stupid things.

PB: Very true

JS: It's just a moment in history that unfortunately that looks like it's not going to be forgotten.

CS: Did you have similar access to the Ramseys?

JS: I've actually had a conversation with John. I've always believed that Patsy is the focus of the GJ for a reason, that John is not the perpatrator of the crime.

CS: What about Mike Bynum--did you get to talk to him?

JS: No---you can imagine they weren't too responsive to what I have to say

PB: These things we''ll get back to tomorrow. Tell the story about the cops wearing a wire

JS: When I got back into town, Thomas, who I was pretty cool with at the time, we got together in Steve's Mustang, having a few beers, and I thought it was just casual conversation, and I was pretty upset when I found out Steve was wearing a wire----they sort of questioned me in a casual way--and as time went on, but the thing is the I admired Steve so much----but a few weeks later, I found myself shut out of every government case. What had happened was that Steve had worn a wire---and I was drinking beers at the time and didn't have my head on straight----Thomas was told never to talk to me again---....

CS: When did this happen?

JS; I think it was Oct of 97

PB: Thomas put this on tape----took it to Hunter and played it for him?

JS: I guess Koby kinda burned all of us---I didn't know a tape recording had been played--

PB: Big guy-what do you think of this?

CS: I think it is a bombshell----

PB: Jeff has been in Boulder for over 2 years working for the Globe---he's been on with us 4 or 5 times, he'll be in the studio with us tomorrow morning. It's going to be interesteding---

CS: Who else knew Hunter was speaking with you regularly?

JS: The people who really knew what was going on in the case knew that I was walking in the back door of the DA's office regularly. They considered me their witness

CS: Does Mike Kane know about you?

JS: I think that Mike Kane came in down the road--

CS: What about the Dream Team--did they know you were involved with Hunter?

PB: Did Bob Grant know?

JS: I don't know if the others DAs knew but Hunter's staff knew---because they knew who I was. It really wasn't a hush hush thing--I'm surprised it took this long to get out.

PB: Jeff, how early can you be with us in the morning?

Both Craig and Jeff will be available at 6 tomorrow am

PB: What a morning----I can't imagine what can happen between now the tomorrow--but we'll do it again then!

(That means early to bed for me!)