Peter Boyles Show - Friday February 25, 2000
1 . "PB Friday on CA woman"
Posted by jams on Feb-26-00 at 08:58 AM (EST)
Peter Boyles 2/25
PB: She "believes" that she may have been molested by Fleet White's father. God only knows where this one goes but according to the morning Daily Camera Alex Hunter's taking this very seriously. My God, Alex! He said "If 15%" quoted in the Rocky saying, excuse me, quoted in the Daily Camera, "If only 15% of what she says is true", he said "I'm gonna take this to the US Attorney". My God! If 5%, or if 15%, of what the people said about John and Patsy Ramsey was true and this man never took anything to a US Attorney. I'm just, I'm past Alex Hunter. As my kids say "I'm over that!" And I defended this man for the longest time but I'm finding myself saying "What is he thinking?". So we'll have, from Fox News Carol McKinley will join us.
PB: What is Alex Hunter doing? If this piece in the Daily Camera is accurate, I mean, I have supported Alex Hunter for the longest time but I've just kind of lost it.
CM: Well, why?
PB: Well, here's Hunter, the story is this: This is the Boulder Daily Camera this morning, quickly, "District Attorney Alex Hunter has turned over", turned over?, "new information to the Boulder police and the FBI he said could provide a MAJOR breakthrough in solving the three year old Jon Benet murder case."
PB: "A 37 year old woman brought forward by Boulder attorney Lee Hill", who we are trying to get on the show, he won't come on, "the woman said she suffered a lifetime of sexual and physical abuse and she BELIEVES", now this is the interesting part of this "she BELIEVES that she may have been abused by Fleet White's father, who's 86 years of age." Hunter says " According to the morning Rocky "He finds her very believable. Boulder detectives, however, don't think she's very believable but the police and the DA aren't getting along in Boulder." There's a news flash... But, he says "If only 15% of what she says is true, we should take this to the US Attorney." Carol, as God is my witness, if he took that as his margin of belief that if 15% of what she says is true it should go to the US Attorney, my God, why didn't he take the Ramsey case to the US Attorney?
CM: Well, that's a good question. Here's the background on all that. This woman is Fleet White senior's, ahhhm, is the daughter of Fleet White Senior's goddaughter.
PB: She says that.
CM: She said that. Apparently, they met in California and there were sexual assaults, according to her, all over the country. It started when she was three and I'm told that her pictures, when she was a little girl, looked a lot like JonBenet Ramsey.
PB: Oh, come on...
CM: So the deal is, Lee Hill, she saw...
PB: JonBenet was a manufactured child...
CM: Well, she saw a report that we did on the deposition and Lee Hill was talking about how John Ramsey wouldn't admit to the problems he had with Fleet White at JonBenet's funeral. She saw that, she said it brought up all kinds of memories. She contacted Lee; Lee brought her out here. She spent 5 hours with the police on Tuesday, 5 hours, that's a long time.
PB: First of all, they would have to do it. I mean, you would think that the police would HAVE to do it.
CM: Well they did have to. Here's the deal: What she's telling police, she believes and other people believe who are on her side, provides strong evidence of Fleet White's likely involvement.
CM: That's her story. But you have to remember that the police don't believe in this conspiracy child-porno theory that a lot of people carry. They believe this was an accident that happened in the middle of the night with a woman who was off balance.
PB: Of course, of course.
CM: Now if Alex Hunter feels like this is something he needs to take and bring on because it might be something new maybe that's part of his job. But from what I understand, she's pretty credible when she talks, ummm, if they're gonna look at and swab every person who lives within, you know, a hundred meters of the house maybe they should take a look at her too. Maybe that's what he's saying. US Attorney seems extreme...
PB: Well, for Hunter to even say he's bringing in a US Attorney, or taking her, perhaps to the US Attorney. First of all, the woman, according to the Daily Camera piece, the woman uses words like "believe", she "believes"...
CM: Yes, she believes it.
PB: I'll tell you, first of all, the difference between knowledge and belief is light years.
CM: Well imagine what Fleet White's feeling this morning.
PB: But, here's the point. This is what I think Hunter's doing. As you know, Fleet White has a major "Jones" for Alex Hunter.
PB: He's gone to Governor Romer about and he's gone to Council meetings and he has spoken openly about what a lousy job he thinks Hunter did.
CM: And Hunter had no love lost for Fleet White either.
PB: I think, this sounds very conceivable, that this is Alex Hunter's way of putting a shot over the bow of Fleet White and if he did it this way, he should just, I mean, he's packin' it in anyhow. He's not going to run for re-election.
CM: Let's look at the fact here, Peter, that it could be that Alex Hunter's just trying to make sure that he covered all bases, like they covered a lot of bases with a lot of different people.
PB: But he never, oh, never mind...
CM: You don't think he covered all the bases with the Ramseys but he's covered the bases with a lot of different people who've come in who've been very suspicious. We talked with Chris Wolfe yesterday. He's a guy the police had checked out quite a bit.
PB: Sure! And you know what, and here's a guy that ended up sitting in jail, at least the jail house for a couple of hours. But here's the weird thing is, this woman has now, according to the Daily Camera and I'll read you the Editorial note in the Camera piece, the woman is quoted in the article who Boulder DA Alex Hunter believes possesses "credible information regarding the JonBenet Ramsey case" has been interviewed by the Camera and by the Boulder Police Department. So that means that she's part of a criminal investigation and she goes to the media?
CM: (Long pause) Well, it's unusual for this case, that's for sure.
CM: From what I understand she says that she was part of a ring of adults, both married and single, who routinely filmed her...
CM: ummm, and they looked and they celebrated sexual acts looking at the pictures of her...
PB: You know what, I'll tell you something...
CM: ... that she would sit on the toilet and bleed on the toilet when she was little.
PB. Yeah, you know what? There's a theory that's called the Suppressed Memory;
PB: ...that these people come forward and they say they were part of Satan cults and all that stuff. You know something, there has never been ONE case of that proven to be true.
CM: OK, well let's look at this now, let's look at this possibility, Peter, and it could be...
PB: Mike's taking me, I just get so angry at this...
CM: I can tell.
PB: Yeah, Hunter..., come on Alex!
CM: I think Alex knows he has to look into this but I don't think that Michael Kane or Alex Hunter or Mark Beckner really believe that anyone outside of the Ramseys had anything to do with this. I think he knows that he has to take a look at this.
PB: Wait a minute. Alex Hunter, morning Daily Camera: "He finds this woman very believable" and the Camera goes on to say "Boulder detectives, however, aren't so sure."
CM: I talked with a Grand Jury presenter about 30 minutes ago who said "Enhhh, probably not true."
PB: Then why would Hunter say he's gonna take this to the US Attorney if only 15% of what she says is true? Come on, there were people who walked in there with light years better information than this about Patsy and John. He didn't go to the US Attorney.
CM: Look at it this way--if there's a trial down the road and he didn't check this woman out, he's in BIG trouble.
PB: He's in big trouble, no matter what! Laughter by both...
PB: Kind enough to be with us, Carol McKinley, from Fox News who as I said before I don't think anybody has done the heavy lifting like she has on the Ramsey investigation. This story is in the morning Daily Camera: "Boulder DA Alex Hunter has turned over "new information" on a, he says he could provide, a quote, and this is the quote, Carol, "a major breakthrough in solving the JonBenet Ramsey murder case". Why is he saying these kinds of things?
CM: Well, I think the police are saying it's a bunch of crap.
PB: Sure it is. But why would Hunter say it isn't?
CM: I think he has a lot of motivations that, that we don't understand.
PB: That don't have anything to do with...
CM: I think sometimes he does this stuff because he knows he has to at least act like he's interested.
PB: Now wait a minute. No, there's a difference between "Gee, I'm interested in this." and saying it could provide a major breakthrough.
CM: Well, that's true, that's true. I'd like to talk to him about it; I'd like to know what he means by that but, you know, I also know people who've talked to him who say, you know, it's nothing, it's nothing but we have to look at it.
PB: All right, here's the deal...
CM: You have to understand, there are a lot of conspiracy theorists out there who believe this was all a part of a big child pornography ring that Fleet White and John Ramsey were both involved with.
PB: That ridiculous book that Stephen Singular did, the guy that did that ridiculous book on Alan Berg, did another ridiculous book and as Chuck Green, from the Denver Post, we were on TV and Chuck took the book and through it in the trash can while we were on the tube together. I mean that was a stupid book but this just plays into that.
CM: Well, it can't help the relationship between the police and the DA. If the police think the DA is really taking this as seriously as it sounds like.
PB: He says he's taking it, I mean, this is a quote in the paper: "If 15% of what she says is true, he's taking it to the US Attorney. If only 15%, and this woman "believes" this is true?
CM: Well I believe part of the theory that she had is that it's a Fleet White-John Ramsey thing. That it doesn't exonerate the Ramseys. That this could be bigger than we all know.
CM: Again, as I said before, the police believe this was an accident that happened in the middle of the night with an unstable woman. It's as simple as that, or not.
PB: Let me read to you from the Camera and to the audience: "In talking to detectives, the woman...", again this woman goes to the press as well "...the woman draws parallels between sexual techniques found at these sessions and the physical evidence of garrotting the investigators found on the body of JonBenet. The woman told detectives she believes JonBenet was killed accidentally when an asphyxiation technique used to stimulate an orgasmic response during a child sex and porno party went too far. The woman told police she knows first hand..." now this is a woman who "believes", these are these reconstructed memory cases which have never, ever, ever one time has any of this stuff ever come to the point where people say "Oh gee, that's true." As a matter of fact, even that woman who said that her father killed her little girlfriend, that stuff is all in question right now. "The woman told the police that she knows first hand about asphyxiation to produce a sexual response because it was done to her when she was a child. The woman said, in her experience, little girls were dressed provocatively and trained to say provocative things such as 'It's a pleasure to pleasure you'." Do you believe THAT?
CM: Well, there's so much that's known about this case out there that anyone could come forward and talk about some of the evidence...
PB: And now she says a big night for these parties was Christmas night.
CM: But that's what I'm saying. There's so much out there right now about this case anyone can come out and they can start naming things about what happened to JonBenet Ramsey and say it happened to them because people know everything now. I mean, the problem is this case has been investigated ad nauseum for over three years and they need to go out and they need to check out everything that comes forward. They have to check it out.
PB: Look, there are people inside this investigation that you know better than I know and there are some people that I know better than you know and given off, unquoteable, or at least unsourceable accounts, they say "This case IS solved, we just couldn't make it in court."
CM: That's right. That's what they say. Now the problem here is if it's not true and this is just a big spin, Fleet White's name again gets drug through the mud.
PB: And that's my point, Carol, is that Fleet White and Alex Hunter despise one another. How tough is this for people to know? The movie goes Sunday night and you're going to talk with us Monday about the film "Perfect Murder, Perfect Town". This is a great opportunity and I hope Alex Hunter is above this, but it doesn't sound like it, to not to throw mud right on the face of Fleet White who, you know, John Ramsey lied on even in the deposition. You and I have talked about it. And Lee Hill, of all people, is the lawyer suing the Ramseys for libel on behalf of Stephen Miles. He knows the story; he took the deposition where we later find out, John Ramsey 's clearly lying about what happened with he and Fleet White in Atlanta, Georgia at the funeral. And Alex Hunter, to his credit, wasn't smart enough to get that and take it before the Grand Jury and show it to them, that once again, here's John Ramsey caught in duplicitousness and caught as a liar. Alex isn't smart enough to have taken that in there and shown the Grand Jury. And you and I both know that.
CM: What you're mad about is the fact that Alex Hunter's come out and he's taking this seriously...?
PB: Well, first of all how do you feel about the Boulder Daily Camera even doing the story?
CM: I have questions about it because to me it seems like there's a lot more checking out that needs to be done. I think it's a story the fact that the police spent 5 hours with this woman and that she had some things to say. It's a speculative story and uhh, it's their decision but it's a story that has to do with speculation, it's titillating, it's something that grabs your eye and again it uses Fleet White's name without maybe a cause to do that.
PB: I don't, I don't...I think the Daily Camera's done a terrific job with this and this is a story...
CM: And I do too.
PB: But to throw Fleet White under the bus in Boulder, taking his dad and doing this to him on one of these...this is called repressed memory.
CM: Well I tell you, the Ramseys can't come out now and say that the police don't check everything out. They can't come out and say the police aren't looking at other suspects.
PB: Well there was what, a hundred and eighty people they talked to? We knew that anyhow. We're coming back. Hang on Carol...Volatile morning here on KHOW radio...
PB: We'll be back with you on Monday. My goodness the way the show's coming together for Monday it'll be non-stop from 5am on. Wrapping it up with Carol McKinley from Fox News. The Boulder Daily Camera does a big story this morning. A new Ramsey lead quote unquote and this time it's Alex Hunter saying if 15% of what some woman from California says is true he's, he wants to take it to the US Attorney. I don't know. I don't know, Carol.
CM: That will be interesting.
PB: Some of this stuff I look at it and if you listen, as I know you do, and speak with the people I know you speak to they will tell you, including some of the DA's that were on that team that was able to look at that Grand Jury, the Governor of the State of Colorado saw the evidence and they'll tell you this case IS solved but as it happens from time to time because of the police screwing it up early on and everything that happened...the case is solved, they know who the murderer is, but can they prove it in court, No. And now this turns up and Hunter who is retiring, he's not going to run for office again, he and Fleet White have despised each other virtually from day one.
CM: Yeah. Fleet White, I believe, even intimidates Alex Hunter, a little bit.
PB: Oh, I think he does too. I think he does too.
CM: But you have to remember that when things like this come up, you've got this, you've got Lou Smit believing that the Ramseys are innocent and you've got the police believing that the Ramseys did it and you've got people not knowing whether it was him or her or how it happened, there's no way you can take something like this to trial. What if some woman like this came out, what if this were in trial and someone comes out and suddenly turns the thing around?
CM: It just shows you what a muddled mess...
PB: Not turns it around, but just...
CM: Well, takes it in a different direction.
PB: Even that...I mean, what we have now because of, you know, how the justice system works and maybe this is a sad way to end a really nice day is that we have a legal system but we don't have a justice system and the Ramseys were able through their power and their money and their clout to cop a walk. And so, now that they're coming out with their book, which we've talked about, which is horrible what they did to three really good people, they've named names of their suspects. Now we have this. I'm surprised that Patsy isn't sitting in Atlanta right now quickly rewriting Chapter Six now that some sad woman has shown up from California.
CM: I was thinking that. I was thinking their book's coming out, it's done and now here's another possible suspect.
PB: Now we'll have a second edition. Patsy: " Ehhhh,ehhh,ehh, oh by the way..." And the fact that this woman goes to the press and gives an interview to the Daily Camera. That's goofy. I mean if I had information that would solve ...
CM: But think of all the sexual assault victims out there who might be listening to this, Peter, who no one ever listened to who are taking offense at this.
PB: I understand this. But she's talking about suppressed memory, I think.
CM: That's true. But listen, they have to listen to her and they have to check her out. They have to. You can't fault them for that.
PB: Of course they do. Carol, I don't. I applaud them for doing it. What I find fault in is the remarks made by DA Alex Hunter.
CM: But you haven't talked to her and you don't know what Alex heard from her. Maybe he heard something that makes him think that he needs to take this a little further.
PB: If only 15% of what she says is true? All right, kiddo. Have a good one.
CM: All right. Have a good time in Florida.
PB: Thanks, pal. We're back here on Monday morning. My goodness, this is gonna really go a lot of directions on Monday morning.