Interview with Mystery Woman
FRANK: Okay.
MAME: so she has promised to call me any moment, I'm going to put you on
hold and make sure that that happens and we'll be right back to you the
sound I'm hoping will work so please bear with this on that one I'll be
right back..I think that she will be on a cell phone so please bear with
us.Frank"
FRANK: Yes, I'm here
MAME: Mystery Woman?
MW: Yes.
MAME: Oh, I hate that name. You're such a lovely, kind, smart young
woman.
I'm going to start out reading an excerpt that I remembered from Jane
Stobie's book, and I don't bring this up because there's any relationship or
connect. But it is something that I read in her book that really moved me
when I read the book. I shared this with you, my friend, I'm going try not to
use the term Mystery Woman and it brought tears to her eyes , She explained to
me the other day that she has trouble crying in front of people. It's hard
for her. She's learned for years and years during her abuse to not cry, it
didn't do her any good. I don't think But I'm going to read that so moved
her and brought tears to her eyes ..and it does relate to the Ramsey case,
but I think that any, I've spoken recently to several sexual abuse
victims.and I think that they would all be moved by this
FRANK: Can we take a break for a second.
MAME: Sure
FRANK: Hold on.
MAME: "It is so cold down here. I am so scared and I hurt so bad.Where is
Jacques? Where is my mama? I don't want to die.My head hurts so bad. Why
did they leave me here?,,,They said I was bad. I feel so alone.My heart
hurts..the floor is so cold. my body is so cold. Why did they do this to me
and leave me all alone?. I am just a little girl and want to be loved..where
is my dog. I need to see my dog.I know I am not that bad. Mama just gets
crazy. I feel so alone and scared.
MAME: My friend, tell me how you felt when you were able to read that
excerpt the other day
MW: Well , I felt that I knew exactly what she was talking about because I'd
been there so many times before, myself.and you just want the abuse to end,
and the people who are supposed to be protecting you are the people who are
hurting you, and you just feel so lost, and you don't know where to go, and
I also felt a little connection because. I always went to an animal, a dog
or cat
MAME: Isn't that true. I mean you and I discussed that when we met the
other day. But The people who have come forward the people in my life that
I've know who have been abused,as children either emotionally, sexually
,physically, seem to all have a connect, a very special connection, to
animals. Do you find that to be true?
MW: Yes, and it's just because animals don't hurt you and you know they
don't try to make you do anything
MAME They don't judge you..
Right And they're just there
MAME: And they accept your love.
MW: Right
MAME: And friendship.
MW: Right.
MAME: Um, it's been quite, how long since you've hopped on a plane to come
to Co.?
MW: Almost 3 weeks It will be three weeks on Sat. And It has been a roller
coaster ride for me. I had to leave Ca. Because my life was in danger. And
I'd had been recently abused and I didn't want that to happen again.
MAME:I want to make clear right now that.your abuse started at age 3,
MW:Right
MAME: And it has continued up until how long ago?
MW: It would be about a month now
MAME: And you are still suffering from possibly severe medical issues
related to the most recent abuse.
MW: That's true. And I've been seeking medical treatment since, oh, it was
almost a week after I arrived here.
MAME: And because of past medical issues, you've had a hysterectomy
MW: Right
MAME: You've had how many surgeries did you tell me
MW: I had about 7 in one year.
MAME: And some of those surgeries were to repair botched surgeries
MW: That's true
MAME: And we won't go into that but we do believe that there is
At least one doctor if not more over the years that was not exactly
professional
MW: That's very true.
MAME: And may have been connected up to some of the abusers.
MW:That's true
MAME: And We're not going to stop there. We're going to let.WE have an
enormous respect. We question the investigation that we are told is going on
now, But we are continuing until we know otherwise to show some respect for
that. Just like we hope that they are showing some
Respect for what they know and what they have to investigate with you So
we're going to try not to go into evidentiary areas
But anyway, Let's get back to where we were.
Tell me friend about your
journey
It was not meant, you did not plan, to rush out here in the way that you did
However over your years of therapy with your dear, dear cohort and therapist
whom I've spoken to and have an enormous amount of respect for And I believe
she's the person, to her professional treatment of you for many years.has
brought you to a place where you could stand tall and come forward
But it wasn't - you saw Mr. Lee Hill, who is an atty in Boulder, on a
national television show being interviewed about another case related issue
MW Right, and I.
MAME: Tell us about that
MW: All right, I saw him on a news program and felt that what he was saying
was correct And that he seemed to me, just out of intuition that he would
be a person who could help
MAME: Right
MW: I'd been keeping the info for the last thirty years not really knowing
where to go or who to give the info too And I was also very frightened for
my own life, if I did speak about what I knew
MAME: There were certain people that were sensing your uh your.the point you
were at emotionally.
MW Right
MAME: And they worried that you might do something like that.
MW:They felt very threatened by what I know, and , so I, on their part that
has been escalating.
MAME: Right
MW And so I just felt that I really needed to be able to tell what I know
MAME: RIGHT
MW to somebody in the event that something would happen to me.. And also
so when I saw Lee Hill I felt that he would be someone I could trust
Somebody that would be able to do something with the info that I had.
MAME: Right
MW: And so I went to a payphone
MAME: And was it that night
MW: It was that day
MAME: Or that day
MW: I went to a payphone and I talked to him for approximately . 20
minutes, I didn't tell him who I was or where I was necessarily. I just
told him that I had information, and just gave him some general info about
what I knew, .And he asked me if I would please call him back.
MAME: He was immediately open to what you had to say.
MW: Yes he was and so.
MAME: But your intuition was correct and I want to make a point here about
intuition. That's another thing besides the connect up with animals ,the
victims that I've spoken with and researched and t talked to, they all have
an incredible intuition
MW: Right And I think it just felt right to me so After speaking to Mr.
Hill, I called my therapist and told her that I had made this call to Lee
Hill
MAME: And what was her response
MW She wanted to check him out
MAME: mmm..mmm..because you hadn't planned this out
MW: No, no. She wanted to check him out, check out his credentials, make
sure that he would be person that would be good for me to speak to.. She did
that and then Mr. Hill asked if it would be okay if he were to come out to
personally interview me.
MAME: And that started the ball rolling.
Right
MAME: And it was only escalated and moved up in the fashion that it was
because of the pressure and the threat that you felt.
MW: Right, because I had been getting more and more telephone calls from
family members, and also from members that..um.. friends of my family
MAME: Even some people that are related to the Ramsey case
MW Right, and
MAME: And you were offered money
MW: Yes, I was. I was offered money if I would keep my mouth shut.
My reply was that I didn't want the money and I would keep my mouth shut.
MAME: At that point you lied to protect yourself
MW: Right, I didn't want to say that I didn't want the money, that I was
going to be you know showing this info to anybody
MAME: Right, so Lee Hill moved quickly and got you on a plane. You got
yourself on a plane
MW: I got myself on a plane
MAME: Tell us how you felt then Here you were you wanted to stand tall how
but what did you leave. How did you feel that day. What time of the day -
or tell us the time frame
MW: It was one week later and um something had been going on like I said
that I was being threatened and I had just recently been abused and so I
figured that I needed to get out of California Because I felt that I would
have great bodily harm done to me if I did not
MAME: Or you would not be around to tell your story.
MW: Right, And, at about 3 o'clock in the afternoon I spoke to Mr. Hill who
arranged a flight for me from LosAngeles, and it um it was , I wasn't able
to go back to my home, I left with the clothes that I had on and nothing
else.
MAME:And your cat, your beloved cat.
MW: I just left her at my house.I wasn't'even able to return to my house
MAME: Right
MW: I wasn't able to say goodbye to um to anyone in my life at the time
MAME Were you feeling a huge sense of strength and .determination at that
point
MW: I think that I was feeling very frightened and I just wanted to get to
a place where I thought I would feel safe. And I would be protected.
MAME: And you were promised safety
MW: Right Yes I was.
MAME: And that hasn't totally come true
MW: Right And I just wanted to feel protected , and I just felt an urgency
to tell what I knew.
MAME: Right.
MW: .And it was very, very difficult for me to just leave everything
behind..
MAME: Especially. your therapist, your animals, you have a dear friend in
your neighborhood, a little boy you told me about.
MW: Right
MAME: Who really depended on you as a friend.
MW: Right and I had many, many other friends and also I had a rep in the
community for the work that I do in home health care, And it was something
that I had built up over the years, and that's what I love to do and it was
hard to just give that up.
MAME: those were the pure good things in your life that you had built on
the spirited, wonderful side.
You had a dual life all along since you were a child, right?
MW: Right, and I think that um I've never had what anyone would call a
normal life
And that's something I have wanted more and more over the last few years the
chance to have a life, the chance to have a life free of abuse and stress.
MAME: I want to mention here that when we met in person the other day
excuse me you showed me on your body a few marks that were put there over
the years. I'm sorry I do get emotional and I know you do too..
You showed me on your body a few marks that were put there over the years
You have a very evident cigarette burn. You have your initials on your
ankle How old were you when the initials were carved in your ankle.
MW: As best I can remember right now, I think that I was six year old, and
it was done by an eraser, by rubbing an eraser on my ankle, and then taking
a toothpick.
MAME: The eraser.explain that because I've never heard of that
obviously.about that sort of thing.
MW: The eraser just made my skin raw, and then a toothpick was taken and my
initials were carved into my ankle.
MAME: And I was able to see that. And
And also in your neck. There are marks in your neck
MW: Uh-uh, but I don't want to go into what kind of marks
MAME: You have several marks on your body, Along with you emotional scars
MW: Right.: I think that what I would like people to know is that about me
is that
I'm just interested in just having the truth out to the public about what
happened.
MAME: Right, right. You have turned over, you have chronicled and archived,
with your therapist, documents, photographs, some, not really medical
records, well Some medical records, school records, throughout the years
and you have turned all of that over.
MW And I have signed a release for my therapist for all my records to the
Boulder Police Dept. There's nothing that I have that I want to hide.
MAME: Right right and that's what our hope is that they will look at every
single piece of information that you have handed over Interview every
single person that they can related to..
MW: and um I just feel that some of the people that I gave them to to see
while they were in Ca., I know that they were not contacted And I think that
it was very important people. People who..a lady..An elderly lady who lived
in a house next door to us in a house Los Ojos And Another woman who lived
in an apt building . and she saw the way that we were being treated as
children and just saw the amount of people that were in and out of my house.
MAME: And many of those people have not been, most of those people have not
been contacted
MW: Well, those two neighbors were not contacted. People who know me as a
person are character witnesses were not contacted either.
MAME: Not yet, anyway.
MW: Right,
MAME: And the people who who have been contacted
The line of questioning was very..oops there goes my Sadie dog If she gets
too loud, Frank, we can pause and I can see if I can calm her down. She
loves my mailman..uh..and ..uh.
The people that have been contacted, the line of questioning was very brief,
correct?.
MW: Right, and um very brief and uh they weren't asked questions pertinent
to the case.
MAME: Right
MW: Just uh questions.I'm not really sure the exact line of questioning, but
I know that not much that pertained to the actual case
MAME: Right. And you spoke to the FBI.
MW: Yes. I did.
MAME: Uh but we have not heard that the FBI have contacted anyone else.. Even your
therapist has not heard from the FBI yet.
MW: Right. And I did speak to the FBI, and I cannot get into what I talked
to the FBI about.
MAME: But so we know that they were involved at a certain point, and we
hope that they still are. Let's move on. Tell us about the last couple of
weeks.You know, just give us some feelings about how you felt.
MW: Well, I think that it was a horrifying experience for me because I
thought that like I said earlier that I would be put in some kind of
protective custody and Um to this day that has not happened and I think it
is very terrifying to be left with my own means In a place where I'm a
complete stranger to try to figure out with my attorney where I should be
and how.
I think that I have felt a tremendous responsibility for my on safety.
MAME: Right, Right And I don't know where she is, and I have not asked to
know where she is, but I do still have concerns for her safety.and that
protection will continue until the investigation is complete
MW: I would like to say one thing, that after my five hour interview with
the BPD
I was given the investigator's card and told to go back to California
Even though I explained to them the situation I was in and how I
I had recently been abused and offered to you know be medically examined
or.and I offered to be medically examined and I offered them some evidence
of medical abuse. So I felt that.
MAME: I think the abuse is pretty evident right now. There are pretty
severe medical issues being looked at here, and we won't go into that. Are
you feeling some more strength these days you've seen and heard of
reports, you have a great writer, Mr. B.J. Plasket who I've been working
with, .who you've connected with. Are you starting to feel that people are
catching on a little bit?
MW: I'm starting to feel that, but I can understand the confusion that
people would feel about this because so many things are being left in the
dark and it would cause anyone to question the story.
MAME: Right.
MW: And for me I've really wished that I could be more open to what to what
has happened and be more open to getting that info out there but I also
understand that there is an active investigation going on out there.Until I
see what happens to that it's better to just let the law enforcement do
their job.
MAME: But you have never read a book about the Ramsey case. Your therapist has,
but -- it's amazing to me how little you know about the case.
MW: That's right. I've tried on purpose to stay away from any of the
information about the Ramsey case to not taint my knowledge.
MAME: Right, right Now you are now in an unknown place, and how are you
feeling about the future.
Obviously you 've reached the point where you are startingt o miss those
things that were familiar with you
You have a good lawyer, and he is fighting, I feel, an uphill battle every
day. You do have a DA who has pretty much stood behind and asked for the
same kind of investigation that you are asking for.
MW:I would like to say something about the DA I have never met with him
personally
MAME: Right. You were able to meet him.
MW: The only contact I've ever had with him, was during the five hour
investigation cause he was in a different room than I was in, observing the
interview, which I would like to say was an interrogation
At one point he did come out.
MAME: I see.
MW: And that was the only time I've spoken to to Mr. Hunter
MAME:But you did sense a kindness and an openness to you.
MW:Right, and I felt that he was more open at looking to what I had to say
MAME: And he did request at one point that there be a female present.
MW: Um.No, he didn't request. there was something of an evidence..a kind of
a.what am I trying to say.of a where ..a woman took me to take a picture of
the abuse.
MAME: Oh, I see, okay. Well we don't want to go there.
What else do you want to share? Talk to us.
Now your therapist does not dabble in, or is she part of, a repressed memory
therapy?
MW: No, she..she has never worked with me about repressed memory,and I don't
believe I have ever had a repressed memories.
MAME: No, because your abuse was continued.
MW: Right, and I do not have time to repress my memory because the abuse
was so continual and
MAME:And all part of the same group
MW: Right, And I started seeing my therapist in 1990 and the types of abuse
have been documented since 1990
MAME:Are you feeling as strong as the day you called Lee Hill, and as
determined.?
MW: I feel even more because I feel that, Not just for myself, but because
there are still other children involved.
MAME: And they are at risk
MW: And they are at risk. And also I feel that, for my own life, this would
be the only way for me to have any kind of a life is to get the truth out
there and I think that there's a lot of protection in the truth.
MAME: I do too I do too. Your feeling toward the media, you do not, and
I've seen you over and over IN the beginning very few people in the media
even wanted to look at this. They were very skeptical, which is a fair
thing to be. But as the days have gone by, the pressure from the media has
become stronger and stronger We know that there are tabloids out there
pursuing you.
We've heard that one tabloid has your name and has threatened to publish it.
MW: I've actually been offered money for a picture of myself at the present
time, and have told my attorney that is not the route that I would like to
take
MAME: Right, right.
MW: I am much much more interested in having the truth be told
MAME: And you understand the role of the media, in the situation that the
investigation does not proceed the way we'd all hope.. The media is a
protection in our society And that's why this is a democracy
IN that the media can come forward, those of us who feel a story needs to be
told, and represent an underdog or the conscience of the community.
You have an incredible perception of that
MW: I just feel that the media was the only way for me to turn if the
investigation was not taken seriously.
MAME: Right. Because you have no interest to be um.in the media spotlight
You from what I've understood in the time that we've been together in our
couple of interviews, you want.to continue a quiet life and to build a life
that you never really had. A full and complete life without secrets and
abuse, family pressure, threats and
I do hope and I believe with your spirit and dignity that you will be able
to do that.um..tell us.
You made.you made a comment the other day when money was offered for a
photograph that ,why would you even consider that, you were offered tons
more than that to keep your mouth shut and stay home and be quiet
MW: Right Right. And that's not what this is about. For me this is about
getting the truth out there.
being a voice for somebody who no longer has a voice. This is about for me
and always has been about the truth. And I would like to say, and this is
something I feel very strongly about, I feel that had JBR been allowed to
live, if she was still here, and she was the same age that I am at present
And had gone through 10 years of therapy and decided, you know, this has to
end and had gone to any kind of police dept or sheriff's office or whatever
and tried to tell what had happened to her.
I feel that she would have been meeting the same type of criticism I have in
trying to report this.
MAME: That's right. And I think that you may not be able to see it now,
but.maybe another little girl, twenty years from now, what you're doing
now, or years from now, next week, next month, twenty years from now, you
will pave the way for someone to come forward, alone, scared, leaving the
only pets, family, that she has ever known. And you offer history and
strength to a grown person or whatever, to do that.And I hope that that
comes to be the case.
MW: Right And I think that there needs to be an awareness of what this type
of abuse is about.
And I think that this type of abuse has always been very difficult to prove.
because of the pain of the crimes that these people commit against children
and they make them so unbelievable-e that it becomes almost impossible to,
for people to take it all in
Right, or believe. we have a local radio person who went on. the radio and
said
This stuff doesn't happen and that upset me so much because I've spent 2
weeks researching these types of crimes. And they do happen. We have
documented cases where they happened. They aren't just a fantasy. It is so
hard in my belief for rich white folks to believe that other rich white
folks..who might live on their block or in the next town and look perfectly
normal on the outside.are involved in these kind of abuses of children. And
I 'm here to tell them that it happens..And if they go and they do their
research
And they're willing to stay open and look deeper than their own front yard,
that they will find it.
MW: And I think that is um one of the greatest tools that these people on
the other side have, you know the credibility of the people that come
forward, and the stories that they tell, appear to be unbelievable..
MAME: Right. We don't want to believe, I mean, so many things happen in
our world that are poisonous and horrible and shootings and murders but this
is in a whole other sphere and to add the child into this is another whole
point.
But I think we'll end there. And I thank you so much and
I consider you a friend, you are one of the most honored women, I am honored
to spend time to you. And I've been around a lot of women and I respect a
lot of women but I almost feel a spiritual -uh -- think that there is
something so.
You're fueled by such pure spirit. And 'm going to end it there we're gong
to end there, and I hope that we'll be able to talk again.
And we won't stop talking, BJ and I, and Frank out there in Pennsylvania
until we feel that this investigation is taking the appropriate course and
giving you a fair shake.
And we hope every young woman that comes forward, or man any human with
this sort of story that sounds so unbelievable will get an ear and an open
mind to investigate it.
MW: That's all I'm asking for
MAME: We thank you, we hope you are safe, we're going to push for your
safety, and we love you, and we're glad you spent some time with us
MW: Thank you.
MAME: Thank you so much. Bye
transcript provided by: Maxi
March 10, 2000
MAME: Well, as I said earlier in our news audio, we are honored to have a
time to talk with........ I am.... and with your help,. Mystery Woman. I don't like
the name MW and I'm going to try not to use that but we do not want her
name released. We hear that some members of the media have her name already,
but we're not going to go there with it and again our point here today is to
talk about the journey of a woman like this who has come forward and what
it's taken to do that emotionally, spiritually, what courage so that's where
we're going to go with this. We're not trying to solve the Ramsey case with
this or any case with this but to talk, for me to have a chance.to talk
woman-to-woman. with a person on this sort of journey.