Geraldo Rivera Show - Saturday, March 29, 1997
This transcript was found on the old Boulder News Forum Archive and was copied "as is" from the forum posting.
RVLV9709100002
Analysis: Recent developments in the JonBenet Ramsey murder
investigation
2240 Words
13559 Characters
03/31/97
Rivera Live
CNBC, Inc.
Burrelle's Information Services
(Copyright (c) 1997 CNBC, Inc. All rights reserved.)
GERALDO RIVERA, host:
Over the weekend, many of the little girls who had participated
* with JonBenet in this and other beauty pageants held a charity affair
in her memory. Several of the children, especially the grown ones
who performed a dance tribute for the little child, and later they
gave her mom, Patsy, a special gift.
Meanwhile, John and Patsy Ramsey are apparently seeking a lower
profile in the investigation of their daughter's murder. On Friday,
attorneys for the couple decided not to send an observer to monitor
DNA testing, which is being conducted at Cellmark Diagnostic in
Maryland, and as of today, they have dropped their much-maligned
media spokesman, Pat Korten, as well as his Web site on the Internet,
which is probably a good idea.
In other developments, CNN turned over to Boulder police the
34-minute--the entire uncut 34-minute interview that CNN conducted
with the Ramseys on New Year's Day, you know, less than a week after
the child was murdered. The Denver Post reporting that the
prosecutors want to hear and see exactly what was said and to study
the parents' body language. The tape was first requested way back
in January. It was handed over now because CNN asked that the
authorities obtain a search warrant, which they did, so CNN has now
complied and given over to the authorities the entire uncut
interview.
What do you think, Larry Pozner, about--What's his name?--Pat
Korten, the--the spokesman going--the big professional spokesman and
the Web site? Was he a terrible idea in the first place? Will you
admit that?
Mr. LARRY POZNER (Criminal Defense Attorney): I would admit he
was a bizarre idea. If he was necessary i--at all, it was because
of the number of reporters who were inundating the defense with
questions, and you either have to decide whether you're going to be
working on law or talking to reporters, and they said, `Let somebody
else deal with the reporters.'
RIVERA: But now they've hired a--a young person, relatively
inexperienced. Do think that they've--they've made a Hobson's
choice here?
Mr. POZNER: Well, I think everybody's feeling their way through
this very bizarre case. You know, it's got all kinds of doodads
we've never seen--a DA group put together and outside experts brought
in to consult and it--I--it's got the feeling of a--of a--a loose
wheel right now.
RIVERA: I tell you what's a loose wheel. What they should do
instead of having memorial pageants for this child is to disband
these pageants, or at least disband the sexual connotation of these
children parading around. If a--if a older teen-ager wants to dance
and pay tribute, that's fine. But to have these little kids dressed
up in bathing suits, I think, is absolutely appalling.
But I wonder, Norm Early, did the parents cause their own--some of
their own problems? Is this now an admission that they went about
this entirely in the wrong way by hiring, you know, PR men, publicity
people, others to shield them from--from the prying eyes of the
public?
Mr. NORMAN EARLY (Former Denver District Attorney): None of us
have ever been in that situation, Geraldo. But I can imagine that
there is a tremendous amount of pressure and anxiety once something
like this happens, and it appears that the finger's going to be
appoint--going to be pointed at you. Hindsight is always better.
I think that it is a recognition by the family that Korten was not
doing the job that they felt that he--he could have done, and I think
that they may have handled things a little bit differently upon
reflection.
RIVERA: The Web site, I thought, was--especially, Joe--especially
whacked out. But would you have made the same decision, Joe
diGenova, not to observe the testing going on at Cellmark?
Mr. JOSEPH diGENOVA (Criminal Defense Attorney): Probably, yes,
and I think--you know, if they go, what are they going to be able to
do? I mean, they're better off not going and cross-examining at
this point, given the circumstances of the case. I mean, I--I
certainly will--will agree with everyone that this is a bizarre case.
And I will say `amen' to you, Geraldo, on this notion of the way
these kids are used in these outrageous pageants. And--and make no
mistake about it; there is a--an obvious and apparent sexuality which
is desired to be brought out of these children in these pageants in
the way that they are paraded in a--in a manner which is premature,
which is outrageous, and the parents responsible for this really need
to pay a price for that. I mean, the--they--the way these children
are used in these pageants is just awful. It's absolutely awful.
RIVERA: I wonder, Larry, how Denver's responding to being kind of
in the--in the center of the--of the storm here, being the center of
the legal news universe because of the...
Mr. POZNER: Well...
RIVERA: ...serendipitous nature of the Oklahoma City trial being
held there and then JonBenet, probably the most celebrated case of
whatever you call it--child abuse, murder or whatever--to come down
the pike in quite a while.
Mr. POZNER: This is a city that's numb.
RIVERA: Yeah?
Mr. POZNER: We are inundated with reports of all kinds on all
kinds of cases, and I think the numbness, in a way, has helped.
It's helped McVeigh in that people are able to step back and say, `I
don't have time to read everything. I don't have time to listen to
everything. I think I'm going to wait for the evidence.'
Mr. EARLY: Yeah.
RIVERA: Do you think that, in a sense, though, that that numbness
has affected--and I'll take anyone on this, and then I'll move on to
Simpson and Brown. Do you think that maybe there is a remoteness, a
disconnect, a--an inability to deal with the fact that 19 little kids
got blown away?
Mr. EARLY: Geraldo, I don't think that anyone in this city would
ever be able to forget that. We have 168 people dead, we have 500
more injured; and don't forget the rescue workers, the police
officers, the firemen and others, who are still having nightmares
and--and--and trauma as a result of finding bodies in--in--in this
horrible event. We recognize that our city, for whatever reason,
is--is now in the spotlight with two horrific crimes and everybody in
this city is pulling for these cases to be resolved in an appropriate
fashion.
Dr. PAUL LISNEK (Ph.D., Jury Consultant): And, Geraldo, if--if,
in fact--if there's going to be any hope on the defense, one of the
strategies is going to have to be that Tim McVeigh is going to have
to acknowledge he, too, thinks, if he didn't do it, that it's a
tragic crime. We never saw from O.J. Simpson his concern about the
tragedy of the crime. We'll need to see that from McVeigh.
RIVERA: I tend to think, when you look at the demeanor of that
particular fellow...
Mr. diGENOVA: Don't hold your breath.
RIVERA: ...don't hold your breath, Paul. Don't hold your breath.
How would you--how would you advise the Ramseys on their herculean
task if, indeed, they are ever charged in this, Paul Lisnek, in terms
of selecting a jury? What jury could you--could you hope for?
Dr. LISNEK: Well, for one thing, you have to take a step back.
Most people view this situation of hiring the press agent and say,
well, you know--the public would say, `That's a sign of somebody who
certainly is a suspect and probably--may have done it.' But keep in
mind that the proper trial lawyer in the future, if they are ever
accused, would take the position that says, `Look, people--we're
always going to look to the parents first and, therefore, these
people were of means, they protected themselves. The best thing to
do, as any defense lawyer will tell you is, "Say nothing and stay out
of it."' But, of course, there's no such thing as--as doing
something or not doing something and not having the rest of us come
on the air and tell you what it means.
So in terms of a jury, it'll be the same kind of issue of
this--it's really circumstantial information. They'll be confronted
with all these steps the--the Ramsey parents took if, in fact,
they're ultimately accused, and--and they're going to have to be told
and accept the fact that it doesn't mean anything, that at that time,
they are presumed to be innocent, a--as they currently are. I mean,
there's--they're--they're not--they're not charged.
RIVERA: Do you think that a jury will be able to be obtained in
the Boulder, Colorado, area?
Dr. LISNEK: A jury--for that case?
RIVERA: Yeah.
Dr. LISNEK: Well, yeah. I don't think--you don't have the same
kind of impact that you had in Oklahoma. There's no ne--what you're
asking is: Will there be a need to move that trial to some other
venue? I'm sure defense lawyers at the time will make the motions
because that's what we do, and that's what they do but...
RIVERA: I don't know. I don't know about that. I think in this
one case, in this a--I don't know. Norm, maybe you know better than
I. But it seems to me that Boulder will pride itself on, you know,
the--the 12 being truly above the fray, they're so anti-media. I
think, in that one case, unlike Oklahoma City, in the JonBenet case,
they will pride themselves a--if it was a Boulder jury on--on being
disdainful of popular accounts of the evidence and really hold out
for a recital of the actual facts.
Mr. EARLY: There's no question that the people of Boulder take a
great deal of pl--pride in their community and in their capacity...
RIVERA: Most educated city in America.
Mr. EARLY: Yeah, absolutely--and their capacity to be intelligent
about these issues and fair about these issues. I think that even
though there has been some criticism about the pace of the--of the
prosecution or the lack thereof, that the people in this city, if a
case is ever brought, would be able to render a verdict that would be
fair and impartial.
Mr. diGENOVA: Geraldo, I think--you know, I--I must say, just...
RIVERA: Go ahead, Joe.
Mr. diGENOVA: ...picking up on what Norm just said, this
criticism of the prosecution and the police--I think that that's
absolutely outrageous, that criticism. You know, nothing would be
worse than for the police and the prosecutors to rush to judgment
just to name somebody, to make everybody feel good in that community.
I don't think the community expects that, and I must say I think
that--that they've given the police department and the prosecutors
a--a pretty good quantum of support for doing the right thing, which
is keep their mouth shut, conduct their investigation and when they
get it and they get it right, then you charge somebody.
Mr. POZNER: Yeah. Joseph's ex--ex--right on point there.
Professional police work doesn't get done in the open. They have no
obligation to be giving out weekly reports on what the evidence is
and where it's leading, and it would be irresponsible of them to do
it. And people need to come to grips with this concept. Good
police work may not solve this case.
Mr. diGENOVA: Yeah, that's right.
RIVERA: Amen.
Mr. diGENOVA: By the way, I hope...
RIVERA: Go ahead, Joe. Then I'm moving on. Go.
Mr. diGENOVA: I hope that the--that the legislature is going to
change the law so that autopsy reports are not public documents until
someone is arrested.
RIVERA: I don't know if I agree with you on that one.
Mr. diGENOVA: Oh, boy. Giving--giving, you know, that kind of
information out about the condition of a body in a crime that hasn't
been solved? That's ludicrous.
RIVERA: Well, how--what'd you think about giving out the video of
the 39 who killed themselves?
Mr. diGENOVA: Well, you mean, when the case is over and the--and
the police department says...
RIVERA: No. They just had a mass suicide out West. They gave
out video of the bodies lying there right away.
Mr. diGENOVA: Well, because the police department there said that
they believed it was--only was a suicide. I mean, if they thought
it wasn't, they would have been pretty dumb.
RIVERA: Oh, well, I--I believe that more disclosure rather than
less, generally speaking. I also think that this delay in a--an
arrest, as I've said before, is brilliant strategy. Boulder's not
putting pressure on the local authorities to make an arrest.
Mr. diGENOVA: Right.
RIVERA: Therefore, why make an arrest and put into implementation
the Sixth Amendment requirement for a speedy trial? Take all the
time you want, let the suspects that you know in your heart have done
it dangle in the wind and then, you know, take affirmative action
when you know you have all your ducks in a row and just...
Mr. diGENOVA: And maybe they'll make a mistake in the process.
RIVERA: And--and maybe they'll make a mistake in the process.
Mr. EARLY: That's how most murder cases are solved anyway;
someone says something or does something that inures to their
detriment eventually and the longer you wait...
RIVERA: Correct.
Mr. EARLY: ...the more likely that is to happen.
RIVERA: There is something...
Mr. POZNER: I refuse the...
RIVERA: ...very un...
Mr. POZNER: ...rush-to-judgment theory.
Program Time: 9:00-10:00 PM
Nielson Rating 367030
Reference: 970331
I0607 * End of document.