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JonBenet Ramsey
Case
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mapek
4/17/01 07:36
PM
Hoffman Chat Transcript (4/17/01) [Post#: 5162 ]
Here it is! Two parts, two posts.
Session Start: Tue Apr 17 19:57:20 2001
*** Yanky sets mode: +m
mapek: Today is Tuesday, April 17, 2001.
mapek: Welcome to what will surely be an interesting chat on the JonBenet
Ramsey case with special guest, attorney Darnay Hoffman.
mapek: Mr. Hoffman, a graduate of Cardozo Law School in New York (class of
82), specializes in civil litigation and trial. He is also considered a grand jury
expert.
mapek: We invited Mr. Hoffman to chat at this time due to the pending litigation
against the Ramseys.
mapek: Mr. Hoffman is legal counsel for two individuals, Chris Wolf and Linda
Hoffman-Pugh, in libel suits against John and Patsy Ramsey, parents of
six-year-old JonBenet Ramsey who was found brutally murdered in her home on
the day after Christmas in 1996.
mapek: In addition, Mr. Hoffman is representing Linda Hoffman-Pugh, the
Ramseys' former housekeeper, in a suit to allow her to reveal her grand jury
testimony related to the Ramsey case in a book she proposes to write.
mapek: The moderated portion of the chat will be divided into two segments,
followed by an open chat.
mapek: We will begin by asking Mr. Hoffman those questions posted in advance.
mapek: Time permitting, we will ask those individuals who posted questions in
advance if they have any follow-up questions for Mr. Hoffman.
mapek: At the end of the follow-up questions, we will have an open chat, at
which time Mr. Hoffman may elect to stay or leave.
mapek: A big thank you to all who made this chat possible.
mapek: Yanky will be our main interviewer this evening. Sisu is our official
greeter and will help answer any questions you may have about the format of
tonight's chat.
mapek: Shortly after the chat, a transcript will be posted on
http://www.CrimeNews2000.com. You are more than welcome to link the
transcript URL once it becomes available but we ask that you not post the entire
transcript without written permission.
mapek: Okay, I see our guest is here and we are ready to begin. Yanky, would
you like to begin?
Yanky: yes thank you!!
Yanky: Mr. Hoffman, it's a pleasure and a privilege to have you here tonight. We
have lots of good questions for you and hope you will feel comfortable answering
all of them.
Yanky: What can you tell us about the suit (on behalf of LHP) to open up Grand
Jury testimony?
NYL: Should federal judge Wiley Y. Daniel declare Colorado's grand jury witness
law unconstitutional it will open a floodgate of new information. We are due to
appear for oral argument on July 5th.
Yanky: Is there a date set for it yet?
NYL: Yes. July 5th for oral argument. Then it will take several months for a
written opinion.
Yanky: Which court has jurisdiction?
NYL: Federal court in Denver, Colorado.
Yanky: From rico: Darnay, are you aware of any other individuals who appeared
before the grand jury having expressed an interest in going public with their
testimony?
NYL: NO. I'm not.
Yanky: candy would like to know: Have you heard of any witnesses on the
anti-Ramsey side who testified before the grand jury who would also like to have
their testimony released from grand jury secrecy laws if LHP is successful? (you
don't have to give any specific names if the answer is yes).
NYL: I have not heard of any witnesses, except for what has been reported in the
Boulder local press. I don't know if any of these witnesses want to testify, yet. Or
report on their experiences.
Yanky: Rico also asks: have you ever heard anything to indicate that perhaps a
member/members of the grand jury itself wished the proceedings to be made
public?
NYL: I have heard nothing about grand jurors wanting to speak out. However, the
law is quite clear on that score. Jurors, unlike witnesses are NEVER allowed to
speak to the public about their experiences.
Yanky: Also from rico: Can you confirm that Fleet White did testify before the
grand jury? Some posters on the forums have made a point of stating there is no
'proof' he ever appeared (which seems ludicrous); can you give some information
that supports the common-sense notion that he testified?
NYL: Since there are reports that maybe as many as 100 people testified before
the grand jury, it seems highly possible that one of them would be the man who
was with John Ramsey the moment JonBenet's body was discovered in the
basement.
Yanky: What can you tell us about the status of the two suits against the
Ramseys: the one filed on behalf of Chris Wolf, and the other on behalf of the
Ramsey's former housekeeper, Linda Hoffman Pugh? Any new developments?
NYL: Wolf's suit begins discovery in May, which includes depositions of John
And Patsy within three to four months at the latest. Linda's suit is in the early
stages. We are still waiting for an answer or motion to dismiss. The Ramseys
have another 30 days with which to respond.
Yanky: please take more time if you have more to add
NYL: All right, I will, if necessary.
Yanky: ok, moving on ...thanks
Yanky: scout asks: Are slander/libel lawsuits usually decided by judges or
juries, or does the defendant have a choice?
NYL: Plaintiff's usually like juries to hear their cases. So, if a motion survives a
defendants motion for summary judgment, which is always decided by a judge,
then a jury will usually have the last word at trial.
Yanky: This one is from shana: Mr. Hoffman, could you please tell us about the
attorneys who are assisting you in the 3 lawsuits and what their expertise and
work product consists of?
NYL: Atlanta trial attorney Evan Altman is assisting me in the Wolf and
Hoffmann-Pugh cases. Evan is a former FBI special agent who left the Bureau to
practice law. I'm operating on my own in the Colorado grand jury case involving
Linda Hoffmann-Pugh's challenge to the grand jury witness secrecy laws.
Yanky: Also from Shana: I read on usenet that another lawyer is lead counsel in
Linda Hoffmann-Pugh's suit v the Ramseys - is this true?
NYL: Evan Altman is co-counsel with me in both cases. Because I'm an
out-of-state attorney, I must appear in Georgia's courts with "local" counsel.
Colorado is more liberal, so I can appear by myself.
Yanky: From CGirl: Darnay, First of all, thanks for all you do in keeping the case
alive! Did either of your clients ask Hunter to be cleared as suspects? I am
asking because it seems that as soon as the Ramsey's asked Hunter's office to
publicly clear Burke as a suspect, they filed their suits. Thank you.
NYL: My clients have never asked Hunter to "clear" them. I doubt if they would
ask Hunter for the time of day.
Yanky: Sabrina asks: Can you briefly explain why you had to file your lawsuits in
Atlanta even though your clients are residents of CO... and the Ramseys were
able to file their lawsuit against Steve Thomas in Atlanta even though he resides
in CO.. Also, how does this work with attorneys such as Petrocelli that practices
in a completely different state--the great state of California?
NYL: When you sue someone in a different state, you can use the federal
courts, but only if you sue them in the federal court that is nearest them. This is
a federal law with some exceptions, such a newspapers or broadcast media,
who are thought to be doing business in every state and therefore "fair game" in
virtually any state. As for Daniel Petrocelli, I don't know he intends to do about
where the Ramseys have chosen to sue his client Steve Thomas.
Yanky: From Jodie: This case has been going on for over 4 yrs. now. This is the
first time we might see some hope that there could be some information that
could lead to the killer or killers. In your opinion do you think that this is the
beginning of finally putting an end to a long dragged out case, or will this just be
another thing that will thrown out of court and the Ramseys will not have to be
put in any other incriminating situations?
NYL: We all live in hope, I think, that each year will be the final year. There is no
question that Wolf's lawsuit and LHP's grand jury challenge are the first
developments that can't be controlled either by the Ramseys or Alex Hunter. So,
with that said, there is room for a great deal of hope..
Yanky: From imon128: ...my question to Darnay is "what will you do if the R's
plead the 5th to any/all things?"
NYL: The Ramseys are legally allowed to take the 5th. In a civil suit, I am legally
allowed to bring this fact out to a jury. Unlike a criminal case, there is no
presumption of innocence, so the Ramseys become fair game with any 5th
Amendment answers they give.
Yanky: rico asks: Will you be calling as witnesses the Ramsey's former and
current private investigators as evidence that they were still looking into Chris
Wolf's background long after he had been cleared by the BPD?
NYL: I hope to be able to, unless I'm prevented by some "privilege" that prevents
me from doing so.
Yanky: rico would also like to know: What about Ellis Armistead? Perhaps he
can shed some light on who the R's were focused on and more importantly, why
he quit the 'spin team'.
Yanky: these are some really good questions tonight, thanks for all who sent in,
and for our guest for taking time to answer them...
NYL: Yes. I think their testimony will be quite revealing as to the extent to which
the Ramseys may have gone to "find" the murderer of their daughter. Naturally, if
Patsy is the ransom note writer (and killer) then all of this investigation could
only have one effect, and that is to pin a false murder rap on some innocent
person.
Yanky: more?
NYL: Please!
Yanky: Sabrina asks: Is your client LHP's husband also involved in the suit?
NYL: No, Merv isn't.
Yanky: Sabrina also asks: Was he incorrectly named and thoroughly
investigated too?
NYL: Absolutely. Both Linda and Merv are innocent of this terrible crime.
Yanky: please feel free to continue, i don't mean to interrupt...thanks: Is Merv
involved in the suit?
NYL: No, he isn't. Linda is the one who has the best claim against the Ramseys.
In Merv's case, the statute of limitations has already run.
Yanky: great, thanks
Yanky: From Paula: Mr. Hoffman, Do you have confidence that you (and your
team) can show the courts that Patsy Ramsey, and others are responsible for
this horrible crime?
NYL: We have several handwriting experts (two of whom are former Justice
Department experts) who are willing to put their considerable professional
reputations on the line by stating that Patsy is positively the ransom note writer.
As even John and Patsy have admitted on LKL, the ransom note writer is the
murderer. They are one and the same person. So you can take it from there.
Yanky: Also from Paula: In your opinion, will justice finally be served after 4 long
years?
NYL: I sincerely hope so. Just getting the Ramseys into a court of law, with
them giving sworn testimony before a jury and the world press is an
accomplishment. There is still hope that a civil case, like the OJ Simpson case,
will result in a jury verdict exposing the killer.
Yanky: This is from scout: It has been published that you and your client can
'prove' PR was responsible for the death of her daughter. Additionally, in his book
Steve Thomas has stated that everything he heard or saw regarding this case
caused him to arrive at a similar conclusion. If either/both of these cases are won
(by the plaintiff and defendant, respectively) does that pretty much pave the way
for a criminal prosecution of the R's?
NYL: Unfortunately, probably not. As long as Mary Keenan (an Alex Hunter
clone) remains in office, there will NEVER be a prosecution in this case. The
Boulder DA has spent four years studiously ignoring evidence, why should they
stop now?
Yanky: From sarah: Can you elaborate on any new details (regarding the murder)
that you hope or expect will come out of your depositions?
NYL: It is hard to tell what information will emerge from a deposition. Naturally,
the Ramseys will be well prepared by their lawyers, so much of what they say
(e.g. "I don't remember") will be quite familiar to people who have followed this
case. Yet, you never know....
Yanky: CAC asks: Do you anticipate any cooperation and sharing of information
& resources between the various attorneys involved in the Wolf, Hoffman-Pugh &
Thomas law suits ? While the cases have their differences, there is a significant
amount of overlap. Cooperation could increase the likelihood of everyone's
success against the Ramseys.
NYL: It's too early to know if Daniel Petrocelli wants to have any sort of
cooperation. It is possible, but there have been no overtures yet.
Yanky: This is from Greenleaf: Darnay, I have only one question? Do you think
the Rams are really going to go through with the Thomas lawsuit, or, will it go the
way of the Peter Boyles suit? I have a strong feeling that the Rams will drop the
suit. Anyway, best of luck to you. You have many admirers on the net. Best
wishes, Greenleaf
NYL: If the Ramseys don't drop their lawsuit, then Federal judge Willis Hunt will
probably thorw it out in a motion to dismiss or summary judgment.
Yanky: we are more than 2/3 thru the questions, thanks for your patience...
Sabrina asks: Please explain what "Summary Judgment" is, and why you think
the Ramseys case against Thomas will not proceed past this stage. Thanks!
NYL: My pleasure. Keep them coming!
Yanky: please see above....
NYL: Summary judgment is the legal establishment's way of "cutting to the
chase." It could be called "where's the beef?" Usually the defendant makes the
motion, claiming that there is no real factual dispute for a jury to decide. The
judge is asked to decide for them instead.
Yanky: thanks....
Yanky: This one is from gaiabetsy: Darnay, what's your take on the Mystery
Woman's story about the sex ring in Boulder?
NYL: An interesting episode, which, in my opinion, has no direct bearing on
answering the question of who murdered JonBenet.
Yanky: Also from gaiabetsy: Is she someone you see who might be able to be of
any assistance in any of the lawsuits?
NYL: It is highly unlikely.
Yanky: gaiabetsy wonders: Is she bogus, in your opinion?
NYL: I don't know if bogus is the right word. She's more of a distraction, a "red
herring." As sad and compelling her story may be, it will never answer the
question of who murdered JonBenet.
Yanky: This is from Sabrina: Darnay, I just read that you are also representing
Eleanor Von Duyke pro bono. Is she also represented by her publisher's
attorneys? What is happening with this suit?
NYL: Eleanor is not represented by the publisher's attorneys. I am representing
her pro bono.
Yanky: Do you feel internet posters are vulnerable to libel suits brought on by the
Ramseys or other players involved in the Ramsey case? pardon me if i cut you
off to soon with the prior question...
NYL: Not likely. First off, these forums are "opinion" sites. Secondly, everyone
has a hat, so who in their community knows its them being "insulted" or "libeled"
by other posters? As for the Ramseys, after four years of being portrayed as
possible murderers in the national media, what chance do they have convincing a
judge that some little internet poster has lowered their reputation in the
community?
Yanky: thanks...would you like to expand on Eleanor Von Duyke..and her
publisher's attorneys? or what is happening in this suit currently
NYL: There isn't that much to say. Eleanor contacted me one day and asked if
she needed a lawyer, since the Ramseys hadn't even bothered to serve her with
a summons and complaint. I don't think they are serious about taking Eleanor to
court, but she needs an attorney just in case. As for here publishers, they are
pretty much out of business with no money for their own lawyers, let alone a
lawyer for Eleanor.
Yanky: From shana: I am curious to know if you had anything to do with the New
York Post's subpoenas to see the Ramsey case documents as served on D.A.
Mary Keenan.
NYL: No, nothing. I haven't been in contact with their lawyers and vice versa.
Yanky: From Dunvegan (dunvegan@justiceforjonbenet.org): Darnay: Do you give
John Ramsey "a pass" in regard to the murder of JonBenet Ramsey?
NYL: No, I don't. I'm willing to "wait and see" what comes out at his deposition
and his testimony at trial.
Yanky: From Dunvegan (dunvegan@justiceforjonbenet.org): Darnay: Do you give
John Ramsey "a pass" in regard to the murder of JonBenet Ramsey?
NYL: No, I don't.
Yanky: Also from Dunvegan: Do you give John a pass regarding "guilty
knowledge" of the murder, or in regards to sexual abuse?
Yanky: From elle138: Why are John and Patsy Ramsey's DNA tests not enough
proof of their innocence, when the DNA discovered on John Benét's clothes is
not a match?
NYL: There DNA is a confusing piece of forensic "evidence" at this point and it is
hard for the public to know exactly what it is the police have as specimens.
Yanky: From Sean: I applaud your dedication to this case and feel you may just
be the right person to crack it. Will you write a book about your quest for justice?
NYL: No, I most definitely will not. There are already too many dead trees lying
around bookstores as it is.
Yanky: k, I will go back to a question please to clarify, ok?
NYL: OK!
Yanky: : Do you give John a pass regarding "guilty knowledge" of the murder, or
in regards to sexual abuse?
NYL: I can't give John a "pass" in either respect. The reasons are simple: He
was in the house with JonBenet. There appears to have been some sort of
physical abuse, according to the autopsy, in JBR's vagina, which could have
been either the mother or father's fault.
mapek
4/17/01 07:37
PM
Re: Hoffman Chat Transcript (4/17/01) [Post#:
5163 / re: 5162 ]
Part II
mapek: Those were all great questions! Mr. Hoffman, thanks so very much for
being here with us tonight!
mapek: We would now like to invite people to ask you some follow-up questions
if you are agreeable. Is that okay with you?
NYL: Yes. If they do it one at a time.
mapek: Great! Thanks so very much!
mapek: A reminder to everyone here -- a transcript of this chat will be posted on
the Ramsey case discussion board at CrimeNews2000.com later tonight. You
are more than welcome to link the transcript URL once it becomes available but
ask that you not post the entire transcript without written permission.
NYL: Your welcome.
mapek: Okay, we'll now go to follow-up questions.
mapek: We'll be asking each of you who posted questions in advance if you have
any follow-up questions.
mapek: There are 16 of you so please make sure you have your questions ready
when we call on you. We hope to have time to call on all 16 of you.
NYL: Please correct my spelling errors before posting.
mapek: I'm not sure if all 16 are here.
mapek: will try :)
Sisu: Sabrina3, do you have any questions for Mr. Hoffman?
Sabrina3: Hi Darnay! Have you seen the Court TV show on which the Ramseys
plan to base another lawsuit on?
NYL: No, but I think that lawsuit will be a big flop and mistake.
Sabrina3: Mark Fuhrman- Larry Pozner were on it
Sisu: Any other questions?
NYL: Interesting
Sabrina3: So was Vincent Bugliosi (spelling?)
NYL: Since I post frequently at the various forums, my opinions and ideas are
pretty well known by now.
Sisu: Thanks so much, let's go to the next person.
Sisu: rico7, do you have any questions for Mr. Hoffman?
rico7: yes
rico7: NYL, what is your take on the R's revealing that Burke was in fact awake
in the recent tabloid interview?
NYL: I don't know exactly, but obviously they are worried enough to preemptively
reveal it themselves
rico7: so this is about timing?
NYL: Probably.
rico7: thank you
NYL: You're welcome
Sisu: Thanks so much, let's go to the next person.
Sisu: shana, do you have any questions for Mr. Hoffman?
Sisu: Shana, any questions?
Jodie: Is there any possibility in your opinion that there could of been an intruder
in the house or are you positive it was someone that lived in the home?, also is
there absolutely proof that John Andrew was out of the state?
NYL: It's possible, but not probable there was an intruder. As Lou Smit is so fond
of saying: Murders are pretty simple. They are usually exactly what they seem.
As for John Andrew, it's unlikely he was involved, especially since he was
photographed at a bank ATM.
Jodie: Thank you
Sisu: Any other questions?
NYL: You're Welcome!
Sisu: Jodie, any other questions?
NYL: McReynolds was probably the most interesting of the suspects the DA
was considering. But I doubt highly he was involved. Domestic homicides
involving staging are almost always the parents.
Sisu: Thanks so much, let's go to the next person.
Jodie: thank you, you have answered many questions I have had. You can now
go to the next
Sisu: sarah6, do you have any questions for Mr. Hoffman?
sarah6: yes
sarah6: cheers. When will your depos be available to read???
NYL: Possibly never, if the judge orders them to be sealed. I will resist such an
attempt however. The depos themselves should be taken by June at the latest.
Sisu: Any other questions sarah6?
sarah6: thank you, on to the next person
Sisu: Thanks so much, let's go to the next person.
NYL: By the way, I'm videotaping the Ramseys depositions.
Sisu: CG, do you have any questions for Mr. Hoffman?
CG: Yes. NYL, how do you address those who believe John Ramsey wrote the
note? Have your experts seen exemplars of his writing?
NYL: My experts are convinced Patsy wrote the note and that John did not.
CG: thank you
Sisu: Any other questions CG?
CG: no, thanks
NYL: You're welcome!
Sisu: Thanks so much, let's go to the next person.
Dunvegan: Darnay, thank you for all of your efforts in this case: Do you believe
that after your trial, Linda will be allowed to tell her story in a book?
NYL: Yes, I do.
Dunvegan: We look forward to it.
Dunvegan: Thank you.
NYL: Thanks
Sisu: Any other questions Dunvegan?
Dunvegan: no, but thank you
Sisu: Thanks so much, let's go to the next person.
Sisu: Candy, do you have any questions for Mr. Hoffman?
candy: Yes
candy: Will either LHP or Chris Wolf be giving any interviews before their
respective trials?
NYL: Very few. We've been approached by Dateline. But both my clients would
prefer to let the evidence do the talking for them.
candy: Thank you.
Sisu: Any other questions Candy?
candy: No thank you.
Sisu: Thanks so much, let's go to the next person.
Sisu: shana, do you have any questions for Mr. Hoffman?
shana: Thanks, not at this time...go Darnay!
NYL: Thanks
mapek: It looks like we are out of time.
mapek: Mr. Hoffman, thank you for being our guest tonight. Do you have any final
words before we go to open chat?
NYL: My pleasure. Bless everyone of you.
mapek: We wish you the very best with the lawsuits you are engaged in on
behalf of your clients.
mapek: We look forward to watching their progress. Please keep up the good
work. Again, thanks very much!
mapek: We are now going to open the channel to OPEN CHAT. Mr. Hoffman,
you are welcome to stay, but understand if you must leave.
mapek: A big thank you to all on CrimeNews2000 who made this chat possible.
mapek: A transcript will be posted later this evening on the CrimeNews2000.com
JonBenet Ramsey case news forum. You are more than welcome to link the
transcript URL once it becomes available but ask that you not post the entire
transcript without written permission.
*** Yanky sets mode: -m
Yanky: OPEN CHAT
mapek: you are now free to chat openly
NYL: It's late, and I have to be in court tomorrow. Thanks, all!
*** NYL has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
Session Close: Tue Apr 17 21:24:00 2001
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