Geraldo Rivera - Monday, May 12, 1997
4 . "May 12th transcript"
Posted by jams on Nov-07-00 at 00:16 AM (EST)
Partial transcript - - show covered other topics...
RIVERA: Oh, shush--with Kim Ballard, the purported mistress of John Ramsey. I--I found out about her awhile ago, didn't go with it because she wouldn't take a polygraph for me, but I trust Carol's reporting and Carol has talked to her. Before I talk to Carol, do you have these clips ready? OK, you have har--oh, she talked to "Hard Copy." OK. Roll "Hard Copy."
(Excerpt from "Hard Copy")
Ms. KIM BALLARD (Alleged Mistress of John Ramsey): He had said Southern belle, blonde, petite. He was someone to fill a void in a period of my life when I was alone, and I think I was doing the same for him, filling some sort of need.
Staying in nice hotels. We had--went to nice restaurants. He bought me nice clothes.
Unidentified Reporter: Cash, too?
Ms. BALLARD: Gave me cash, yes.
Reporter: Hundreds? Thousands?
Ms. BALLARD: Maybe $ 1,000.
(End of excerpt)
RIVERA: We could have called tonight's program A Tale of Two Ads. In the initial part of that interview, she was talking about how she met John Ramsey. Apparently, Carol, they first met through a personals advertisement?
Ms. McKINLEY: Yeah. According to Kim Ballard, they met through an advertisement she put in the USA Today in the personal ads. And, you know, you have to wonder after four and a half months since the child was killed, why does she come forward? I mean, that's the journalistic perspective of all this. What is up with this? It seems to always happen in these kinds of stories; someone always comes out and then they say they had an affair and knew someone before and...
RIVERA: Do you believe her?
Ms. McKINLEY: So--you know what? I--if I said one way or another, it would--it would give too much away and I--I--you know, I'll let you guys decide that for yourselves. But basically she just came out and said the reason she waited this long to come forward--and supposedly this affair she had with John Ramsey was back in November '94 to April '95, which is when Patsy Ramsey apparently had her ovarian cancer troubles.
RIVERA: Cancer--right. Right.
Ms. McKINLEY: But she says the reason she waited so long is because she would have kept silent, but the Globe actually used her name and she wanted to tell her story and she said the Globe had printed a bunch of lies about her, and so she wants to come forward and she says she hasn't taken any money.
RIVERA: This is--this is interesting. Part C--Tape C from Carol's interview.
Tell me when you have that keyed up because that, to me, is--OK. Let's roll--let me set it up. This is the only--as far as I can see from all the interviews, this is what brings it back to the--to the case, to the investigation. Roll Tape C.
(Excerpt from interview)
Ms. BALLARD: I met him in 1994, and if it hadn't of been, you know, for the Globe printing my name, I would've stayed a secret, like I always had been. But since it was printed, and also, their investigators--their own investigators, Ellis Armistead and Associates have been calling me daily, at least once a day.
The only thing I can think of is that maybe their own investigators are putting together a profile, the way the FBI will do, of a killer, because they just called and fir--at first they wanted to know everything about the relationship. And then it was just calls every day: Who are you talking to? Are you going to talk with anyone? Has the police contacted you? Are you going to talk with them?--just keeping up with me every day.
(End of excerpt)
RIVERA: Even mistresses tell the truth, Carol.
Ms. McKINLEY: Well, you know, this has nothing to do with the murder and that's what you have to remember. The only thing it has...
RIVERA: Well, how about the fact that her--that...
Ms. McKINLEY: ...to do with is, if--if this, indeed, happened, the character of John Ramsey.
RIVERA: It has to do with character, but if...
Mr. diGENOVA: Excuse me.
RIVERA: ...his lawyers or investigators are calling...
Ms. McKINLEY: Yeah, and if they're calling trying to find out who she's--when she's going to talk.
Here's another interesting segment that came in the interview later.
RIVERA: All right. Joe--Joe, put down the cigar for a minute. Let's listen to Carol. Go ahead.
Mr. diGENOVA: I'm--I'm listening.
RIVERA: All right. Go ahead, Carol.
Ms. McKINLEY: Well, one of the things she said...
RIVERA: He wields that like a lethal weapon. OK.
Ms. McKINLEY: ...(unintelligible) she was--she was going to come out at the beginning of May and go on the show in Philadelphia. And what she said was the day before she was to take her flight, she got a call, and the person on the other line, which was a man, told her if she talked about John Ramsey, the same thing that happened to JonBenet would happen to her.
Ms. McKINLEY: And then this person hung up. So she's pretty nervous and--and she's scared now and whether this is true or not, it's all just one more strange...
RIVERA: It is.
Ms. McKINLEY: ...twist, as Bill Ritter said a little while ago in this--in this bizarre story.
RIVERA: OK. Before--before Joe and Larry tear it apart, let me merely suggest to you folks that--remembering the Simpson saga--remember how morbidly fascinated we were with all of these tangential, even extra legal characters that came to play a part in that--in that drama? So we'll comment on that. Stay tuned; be right back.
RIVERA: The big news in the JonBenet case, the fact that the Boulder DA sanctioned the family's ad in the local newspaper over the weekend; an adult male approaching your young children'--if you have any information, please call the Crime Stopper number. That's the big news. The kind of subtext here, an alleged mistress of John Bennett Ramsey's surfacing, talking about how he was a controlling personality.
I guess you asked her whether she thought they were involved in the case, did you not, Carol?
Ms. McKINLEY: Yeah, we asked her if--if, in her gut, if she thought they might be involved, and she said that she didn't know but that she believed that--that they could be. She had a gut feeling that they were.
RIVERA: She didn't talk about anything about him--Larry is rolling his eyes.
Ms. McKINLEY: She said she had a--she said she felt he had a temper, but there was one thing--there was kind of an antenna that went up because she said she felt he had a temper because when they were out to dinner she ordered decaf and he sighed.
POZNER: Ah, there it is.
Ms. McKINLEY: To me, that doesn't mean he has a temper. It just might mean that he wants her to stay up.
Ms. McKINLEY: I don't know what, but--you know, to commit to a relationship.
RIVERA: I side with they didn't have time to ...(unintelligible).
POZNER: Wait. Wait. Wait. Where's our FBI profiler to tell us...
RIVERA: OK. Joe...
POZNER: ...the, you know...
RIVERA: ...Joe first, then Larry. I've got to--I'm going to sandwich (unintelligible) due process.
Mr. diGENOVA: All right. Let me just--let me just say this. If one were looking at this story--and let's just assume for the sake of argument that this woman is telling the truth.
Mr. diGENOVA: Let's assume that--that--that John Ramsey, while his wife is undergoing treatment for cancer...
Mr. diGENOVA: ...decides to go to a personal column to find someone to have a liaison with.
Mr. diGENOVA: It's weird. It's...
RIVERA: It is weird.
Mr. diGENOVA: ...almost as weird as having your child dress up like an adult when she's very, very small and pretending that that is insignificant.
RIVERA: So there, Larry Pozner.
POZNER: Oh, please.
RIVERA: So there.
POZNER: Prosecution should be based on sterner stuff than this.
RIVERA: It's not about the prosecution.
POZNER: Come on. Come on.
RIVERA: It's about the investigation.
POZNER: What investigation?
RIVERA: The character, the personality...
POZNER: What? The--tell me where...
RIVERA: ...the personal habits.
POZNER: ...this supposed mistress leads to. I--now we're going to hear somebody say that men who have affairs are more likely to be homicidal? Come on. Where...
RIVERA: How does this jive...
POZNER: Where's the evidence?
RIVERA: How does this jive with John Bennett Ramsey, supporting father and husband, who sat alongside Patsy and tearfully told the nation that they didn't do it and they were going to get the bastard who did, etc., etc.?
POZNER: If it's true, if he had the affair, I suspect he's...
RIVERA: When his wife was under treatment of cancer.
POZNER: ...I suspect he's not the first male to have an affair...
RIVERA: Oh, well...
POZNER: ...and I don't think it shows anything about whether he is a killer. And--and wait a second. Where'd this notion come from that he's the one dressing up JonBenet? It was his wife who participated...
POZNER: ...in beauty pageants.
Mr. diGENOVA: Did he stop it?
POZNER: Oh, so he's going to say to his wife...
RIVERA: John was...
POZNER: ...I forbid you to put...
RIVERA: John was present at many of those. Mr. District Attorney.
Mr. diGENOVA: Did he stop it?
RIVERA: Mis--no, he did not. Mr. District Attorney.
Mr. RITTER: You know, again, this is a--a very bizarre sort of sidelight here. It is the sideshow. For a prosecutor, you have to maintain your focus on the details of the investigation that someday may be admissible in trial in a court of law, and you can get a little bit away from that, trying to decide different kinds of character issues. But this is of no help or hindrance to the prosecution. This is just something, that's purely, I think, entertaining.
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