Newseum Transcript 2: Ramseys re. the Media by Dunvegan
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"Newseum Transcript 2: Ramseys re. the Media"

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... Newseum Transcript 2, Dunvegan, 23:04:11, 3/24/2001
Newseum Transcript (2 of 3), Dunvegan, 23:07:21, 3/24/2001, (#1)>BR?
"Newseum Transcript 2"
Posted by Dunvegan on 23:16:44 3/24/2001
NOTE: This message was last edited 23:16:44, 3/24/2001

OK...it's running a little longer than I originally thought it would...and I'm about to run screaming, after having John and Patsy Ramsey cackling and moaning in my ears for hours.

Anyway...it's shaping up to be a three-parter. Sorry.

I'll post Part Two now. Three tomorrow.

(God, I hope it's only 3 parts....)

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1. "Newseum Transcript (2 of 3)"
Posted by Dunvegan on 23:07:21 3/24/2001

M: So, it's a real…it's a real conundrum -

J: - Yes!

M: - I mean…uh, no coverage then doesn't protect our rights against the government…uh, abuse…but, too much coverage, you're saying, this kind of saturation: any detail, any gossip, any rumor…also -

P: - gets in the way -

M: - creates a situation where our rights are, uh…we've lost rights. And, so, we need reporting -

J: -Absolutely. That's…that's the conclusion I've come to…(Crosstalk between John and the moderator)

M: -but, where do you draw the line?

J: - and I've gone the full gamut of…in the beginning I was…you know, this system is terrible. We need the government to take it over, and by God, that's the answer. And…then, of course then you realize - whoa-whoa - that's a bad idea!

Uh…we need…a democracy needs freedom of the press. It…and I think Plato said that…a long time ago. But, it's got to…uh, it's very biased with…with, as Patsy said, adjectives…um, um…there was a report recently in the Atlanta paper, where it was reported that we were selling our house to pay legal bills, which is true…uh, but the article said that "the Ramseys have to give up their lavish lifestyle." Well, that wasn't…necessary. You know, that…that hurt! I mean, the fact of the matter is that we were losing our house, because this has been horrendously expensive, and…you know…we'd worked all our lives, and -

P: (crosstalk) - See, it's those -

J: …our savings…

P: - little adjectives -

J: - but, the adjective of "lavish lifestyle"…

P: - Paints a portrait -

J: - paints this horrible picture! We feel like we been created into modern-day, real-life J.R. Ewings. (Quiet laughter from audience)

M: Um hmmm (affirmative.)

J: And, we were created…uh, probably in the beginning by the tabloid media…

P: Um hmmm (affirmative.)

J: …to be hated. Because that sells…sells their paper. People wanna…you know…find someone that's…life is…I don't know why people read tabloids. And…but…some do, and…and the big problem is that many, many, more see the headlines…and that's where the damage is done.

But, um…

P: I mean as journalism -

J: That is just -

P: Yeah!

J: perpetuated, from our perspective…um…

M: Well, why do people read tabloids? They're in business because -

J: (exasperated) Yeah!

P: It's profit!

M: - they're some of the largest circulation -

P: There's something about…I don't know whether it's Americans…the human psyche…something. We're just…we're NOSY! You know, you (laugh) wanna know…what our neighbor's doin'. You know. Where are they going? Where are they coming from? And…I don't know what it is. I mean, I think it's…sickening. But, they sell so many magazines…it's just unimaginable.

J: Well, and you know, the issue is not, in my mind, not…if people want to buy that stuff and read it, you know, they deserve to pay the two bucks, or whatever they have to pay for to buy it. But, the problem is: it's right in the front of everybody's face…these lurid headlines…which often are toned down in the story, you know.

"Father…uh…Assaults Daughter in Bed!" …and then you, you…that's the headline. And, so, if you're passing through the grocery line…and you see that, you think, "Whoa!" and that gets burned in your brain. And then the next time you see it, it's burned again.

The story may be totally different. But the headlines are what do the damage. And I'm convinced hundreds of millions of people see those headlines…because they're walking past the supermarket check-out stand. And that's where the damage is done. I don't…you know…if the tabloids…I mean, that people buy child pornography magazines, people buy all sorts of…strange things…it's a free country, I guess.

But the fact…that the "pushers" put this stuff right in our face…

P: - with children in the (garbled…may be "buggies")…

J: …is what's wrong with…our…our contention is, you know, let…tabloids, if they t-t-they've got an audience, that's fine…you know, that's not to be…uh, the issue. The issue is: the pushers of this pornography, journalistic pornography…in my opinion, uh…should be criticized, by their customers for putting it in front of their children -

P: - "Pushers" being: the grocery stores, the drug stores, you know…where…that give them the floor space.

J: And, they do that because they because it's very profitable…they make a lot of money.

M: Well, it's right -

P: (Shouting down the moderator) AND THEY MAKE LOT OF MONEY!

M: - there…the tabloids are right there with the candy -

P: - That's right!

J: - You can't miss it.

M: - and the other stuff that may or may not be good for you, when you're checking out.

P: (loudly) And, you may not stoop to actually pick one up and looking at it, or buying it, for heaven's sake…but, nevertheless, you're gonna see the headline. Perfect example: a few weeks ago…you know…it…of course, we know, uh…that part of the crime scene that we have this Hi-Tec boot footprint that is unidentifiable. Well, a headline ran: "Ramseys Turn Over Hi-Tec Boots". You know. So, if you just saw that, what would that tell you? We had a Hi-Tec boot…you know. That is not what happened. Our investigators, you know, investigating…um, you know…into…

J: - one of the leads --

P: - into one on the leads that we had, obtained a pair of Hi-Tec boots!

M: Oh. So, you went and got some boots.

P: (laughing) So…our investigator obtained these boots…turned them over to the police authorities. Well, the headline implies that it was…they were our boots! You know….

M: Could you tell us who's they were? I mean, or just -

J: Well…

M: - did you go to a store and buy them, or what?

J: No…

P: (unhappily) -No.

J: These were…we have probably a half a dozen good leads. That we've been working on. We've given all the information to the police. Uh…one of them may be the killer…none of them may be the killer. And, so, uh…but this pair of boots belong to one of the leads that we have and the footprint is, from our perspective, an identical -

M: Matches.

J: - match. May or may not be anything. But, we gave them to the police, and said, "Here, this needs to be looked at. Please, look at them." And…we can only hope that they have.

Um…but, um…you know, I've often thought that if we could, if we could marshal all the effort that the journalists have put in to this case, to finding the killer, we'd of had him a long time ago.

M: Hmmmm.

J: And there have been…three or four, maybe half a dozen journalists who have really dug into some things, as I said earlier…some very, very interesting…bits of information, that we wouldn't have found, and I know…the -

M: I want to go back to the students, but -

J: - the police wouldn't have found.

M: - could you name those journalists…I mean, the journalists that were really…turning up things that were -

J: Well…Dan Glick of Newsweek…uh…

M: - helpful to the case.

P: - he found a tremendous amount.

J: - dug into a lot of stuff, just in his process of investigative reporting. Uh…Charlie Brennan of, formerly the Rocky Mountain News, um…broke this story about the…ummm…very similar circumstance that happened to this young girl in Boulder, nine months after JonBenet was assaulted. Um…he had a difficult time getting it even printed. He…he was a freelance journalist, at the time…and nobody in Boulder would, or in Colorado would print the story. And, it ended up being printed by the Dallas Morning News…and, of course, it made national headlines because it was, you know, very…a very similar attack, uh…had been kept quiet by the police…had not been even disclosed to the prosecutors, who were looking at us very hard…and it needed to be looked at very seriously, in my opinion. They broke that story, and that's great.

M: Let's get back to our students. You're on "Inside Media".

STUDENT QUESTIONER #4: My name is Esther (redacted) and I'm one of Mr. Morrison's students…I just had a question: You wrote in your book, "Death of Innocence," that you started taking pictures of the media that were covering you. Now, may I ask why you began doing that? And, what you intend to do with the photographs?

J: Well, it was a defense…what we found was that…and, these are mostly tabloid photographers…they hated to have their picture taken. I don't know why. If they were wanted for arrest somewhere…hmmm…

M: Oh…now YOU'RE doing it!

P: Heh, ha ha ha! (loudly)

J: Sorry!

P: (gleefully) Editorializing!

J: (John and Patsy crosstalk) I…

P: The best defense -

J: They…

P: …the best defense was to turn the tables on 'em!

J: They'd flee, basically.

P: Yeah!

J: They just hated to have their picture taken. They hated to be followed. They would follow us in their car…you know, we'd be out driving, and we'd notice this car…they always used rental cars…

P: Um hmmm…

J: In Colorado, rental cars have headlights that -

P: - the headlights -

J: - are on all the time. So, it was very easy to pick them out, because it's the only car with headlights on, all year round. Well, if we could get behind them…and follow them…if you pursue them in the same way…they hated it. So, it became…it became kind of a game, in some respects. Although, it was…a very…

P: Dangerous game.

J: - uh…yeah, you know when Princess Diana was killed, you know, and that fleeing of the…uh, tabloid photographers: I knew exactly how they felt.

P: Um hmm (affirmative.)

J: And, it's silly…because it can't hurt you…well…they can hurt you immensely with a camera. Because of the things they say and the picture. Uh…I've often said I'd rather have a gun pointed at me than a camera. Because, at least I know the gun…I know the worst it can do. The worst damage it can do. But that…just the feeling of being pursued, it's a…it's like the red fox being pursued by the hounds. Uh…it's…I think it's just an instinctive…uh, feeling that you have: that you don't wanna be pursued.

M: Can we talk about perceptions, a little bit? One question that you're obviously asked every time that you do an interview is: did you kill your daughter? When you first thought about answering that question, probably still today, do you think about what the best way to answer that question is, in terms of the tone you take, and the words you choose?

P: You know, this…this never ceases to amaze me that people think that we are so calculating. Somebody said that…that if we really did this, that we are the best…we ougha get a…uh…an Oscar, or something, cause we're the best actor…actors…around. I mean, when somebody asks me that, I say, "NO!" I mean, I don't think about…anything except, "NO! I didn't do it!" So, I don't…I don't plan how I'm gonna say (laugh) it…or, it's just…um…I just say, "No." What else is there to say? You know….

J: Y-y-y-eah…I m-m-m-ean, it's a…it's a…uh, (pause) It's…you know, on one level it's a…it's a very…foolish question. Cause we know…who we are…that we loved our children…normal people. Ahh…but now if..if somebody asks me that, I say…"So why, why…before I answer that, but why do you ask the question? Why would you even…suspect that. Or, why would you wonder that? What in my background…would make you think that? What…what…of the evidence, you know about, would make you think that?"

"Why would you even ask that question?"

M: Thinking back, was there a moment where you realized that…you were suspected, although not named as suspects, that moment…and, you're saying to yourselves, you know, "Well, we just go and tell them 'No…that's ridiculous.'"

J: Yeah…

M: But, I guess…you know, you must have been thinking, "That's not good enough, that's not going to be good enough." Uh…

P: See! That's where I think you're wrong: why shouldn't that be good enough? I mean, why do I have to defend myself…I have been, you know, a good mother. I have been…tried to be…a good…person. I mean, what in my background have I ever done -

J: See, we actually had -

P: - to make you THINK that?

J: - the Chief of Police in Boulder say, "Well, you prove to me you're innocent…and I'll be the first to say it."

P: (exasperated gasp)

J: And, I felt like saying, "Do you know what you've just said?"

P: Right.

M: The opposite of what -

P: (crosstalk) - Yeah! Backwards of -

M: - is supposed to be the law.

P: - Innocent until proven guilty.

M: Umm hmm (affirmative.)

J: And, yet…he had no concept of what he had just said. And yet, that's the perspective that they took on this case. "Prove to me you're innocent."

M: It's a very unusual position you were in -

J: Yeah.

M: - and, and…and I think that some of us are just fascinated about (sputters)…in morbid way, I have to admit…but what would it be like to be…to have that happen to you? And…and just the incredible frustration that…of not being able to communicate what you wanted to communicate.

J: Yeah. Well, it…the big issue is…the big perspective issue is, I think, is that we're not unique in this. This happens a lot…in our country. I think the…the whole, the whole approach, in large degree, of the justice system has taken on this, "You're guilty…you gotta prove you're innocent." And, that's why we've got innocent people in jail. That's why you read about it everyday in the paper. People being released based on DNA evidence that was tested…

P: Um hmm (affirmative.)

J: …and like, "Whoops! They weren't guilty."

P: Um hmm (affirmative.)

J: But the police don't…if I can use our experience as a…as applying to the 18,000 police jurisdictions that are out there, which isn't fair, but…they make a decision, they decide guilt, and try to prove it.

And, your job, it to prove you're not guilty. And…that's backwards.

P: You can't…how do you prove you're not guilty?

M: Reginald, got a question for them?

STUDENT QUESTIONER #5: My name is Reginald (redacted), and I'm a Junior at the University of Maryland, and my question is: if you were a journalist covering this case, how would you have gone about things differently?

M: And, if you could, along those lines…touch on some of the characterizations that you mentioned. You've mentioned terms that journalists use: "lavish lifestyle". JonBenet is constantly referred to in stories as a "beauty queen."

M: That was the basis for the sensationalism of the story.

P: Well, I know you've heard this a million times…"the pen is mightier than the sword." That…I mean, John just said he'd rather have a gun pointed at him than a camera. I mean, when you write a story…every word counts. Particularly, those adjectives. "The Ramseys give up 'lavish lifestyle'." You know.

Katie Couric said…we were on the Today Show…and she said, you know…just in her…you know, quick, "bub-bub-bub-bub-bub-bub-ba" you know, "Ramseys just take a 'self-sponsored' polygraph test."

And, I said, "WHOA, WHOA, WHAA…whoa, whoa, whoa! Listen to what you just said! 'Self-sponsored polygraph test.'" I mean…those little adjectives there…absolutely send a picture, you know, to the listening audience…to your reading audience, you…combined with everybody else reporting about this are building a characterization, you know, of the person that you're reporting about. So: Watch those descriptive things. You're there to report the news. Unless you're on the editorial page, you do not have…total carte blanche to give Reggie's, you know, personal opinion…you know…of what happened here, or who these people are. Or, how they came across to you. You know, unless somebody comes up to you and says, "Gee, when they were out in the hall…what did they really act like?" Then you can say what Reggie feels like…but Reggie reporting as a representative of USA Today, or the University of Maryland, or whatever…shouldn't insert…you know…your own little adjectives, because that's what…that's what nailed us!

I mean, people say, you know, (takes on a huffy, deep voice) "Ramseys live in a mansion! A b-i-i-i-i-g mansion!" You know, the price of the house kept going up…you know. We tried to sell it, and the realtor said it kept going down…I think it was Diane Sawyer who came into the house, and she said, "This is the mansion?" You know, it just got…it…it…was make-believe! And, it was all because of the words chosen by each individual journalist. Time after time after time.

M: Meghan?

STUDENT QUESTIONER #6: Hi. I'm Meghan (redacted). My question for you: I know you guys touched on the law in England, as far as privacy laws…but, do you feel that privacy laws and other limitations should be placed upon journalists or media coverage, in cases such as the killing of your daughter?

P: Funny you should ask…our eighth grade son, Burke, is…in his civics class studying privacy in the media. (sigh) And that's, you know, what he's going to be studying all year…where do we find the balance between the public's right to know…and an individual's right to privacy? Both of those are equally important. So it's…when one over-steps the other, that it starts getting ugly.

Um…do you have any…?

J: Well, I think…I mean, the things that were…offensive to me, just as a person…were how…why should a photographer be able to take my picture, without my permission…and sell it? That didn't seem right. Now, um…I know in France, for example, they have laws where you can't do that…without the person's permission.

The…um…but, the big issue, I think, really…and, and maybe you have to have laws…cause there's always people who'll stoop to the lowest common denominator. We've got to protect our justice system from…ah…this intrusion…and, and in fact it's being used for entertainment. I marvel at shows like CourtTV, and uh…you know, the…televised OJ trial. This is for entertainment. And, and that's not right.

P: And, one of the big problems, too…is that, you know, I think you said that if one of the students gets one thing wrong, you know: a detail incorrect on your paper…you get an "F". The press in this country: media, broadcast, print, whatever…has no accountability. If they make a mistake, there is no one to smack their hand.

There's no one…the liable laws are the only thing that we have to retaliate with as a private citizen…but, even that is like, like David and Goliath. You know…trying to...to fight this. So, um…unless someone…as a matter of fact I think Brill's Content…do you'all…you should get Brill's Content magazine…they're kinda a "media watchdog"…on their own industry. They did a survey of some of the top media executives, in the country. And posed two different, self-regulated kind of questions to them. You know, Would you, in lieu of a law being passed…would you voluntarily, as a news organization agree to…I'm paraphrasing…but "back off", you know…children, particularly…and respect the privacy of people…and, I think the whole thing came about right after JFK, Jr.'s plane went down…and they were talking about how horrible it was…people sticking cameras through to Caroline Kennedy's home, and that kind of thing.

And, I mean, almost without fail…every one of 'em said, "Oh, no!"…you know…"We judge everything case-by-case and have all these wonderful…um, mantras about how they are…really want to do things ethically. But, you know, when they choose between ethics and getting' the scoop first…you know, and be on the air in five minutes…guess what…they're gonna go with that one without checking things.

M: Did it, did it bother you at all when Brill's used a picture of your daughter on it's cover? They got quite a bit of criticism from other members of the media, who thought that they were also guilty of exploiting her death.

J: Yeah.

P: Well…

J: Well…we were so numbed by that time…you know, it's….

M: Of all the exploitations, this wasn't so bad because it was media criticism?

J: (laughter) Well! Ha…that helps!

P: Well! (laughs) It's kinda like…it's kinda like why we're here today! You know…preaching to the choir, kinda! I mean…there is some choir-members here, if I'm not mistaken…you know….

So. I mean…they were using her picture…as an example…uh…of people using her picture. (Laughs) You know what I mean…So!

M: Some people have said that the problem with the law is that it could also stop those, sometimes rare occasions, when it's important for journalists to be able to take photographs of things going on in public-

J: Yeah, I know. And, that's a different…how do you -

M: - to show, to show…how about this: there has been some…there's been talk about re-creating the National News Council. It would be a place that people, in your situation, could go to…you know…cast the light back on those…it's kind of like an institutional way of turning the video camera on to the…what would your opinion be about that kind of an institution?

J: I think that…I mean, from what you've described, I think that would be very necessary to…It's probably the only, from my awareness, the only way a group of professionals who don't have an oversight group, like the American Medical Association…or the Bar Association…and, you know, anybody can call themselves a "journalist." And there's…it ranges from the lowest of the low, like the tabloid…to the best of the best. And, unfortunately…you know, the…lowest of the low bring down the whole standard of the industry.

There used to be accountability. As I looked at it from, OK…how do you fix this? Maybe, it can't be fixed…maybe you just hope there's enough good journalists out there that…and people begin to understand that this is where I get accurate, correct information.

You know, in the old days, you know that if Walter Cronkite said it…it was true. You just didn't question that. And now, I've learned…I'm not sure where you go for that absolutely, most-of-the-time, accurate information. But, if…maybe the way it's fixed is if enough people like you guys, that understand what your role is…and it's a critical role in a democracy and a free society…that, it would…counterbalances the bad, uh…and um…cause I've thought about this a lot. You know, how do you…how do you fix all these wrongs we've seen? And…um, it's not easy.

P: And the trouble is, you know…you students sitting there are saying, "I will never stoop to this. I was raised better. My momma wouldn't like this!" (laughs) You know…and you might have really great…you know…determination to go out there and really fix it. But, all of a sudden…when Globe Magazine, or somebody is waiving this big check, and a free expense account…then, uh…a car, and…you know…blah-blah-blah…it's like: (whispers) "Oooooh! Gosh! Welllll…let's just do this for a little while." You know…and get back into the real stuff later…or something.

You know…the "almighty dollar" does strange things to people….

So, you know, don't give up your…

J: Principles.

P: …principles. Just…don't. It's just…that's where things start a downward spiral.

M: Tell us who you are.

STUDENT QUESTIONER #7: I'm Maura (redacted), also from the University of Maryland. You were talking about your son. I was wondering what steps you take to shield your son from the media, and how has he been effected?

P: Well, first step is I'd rather not answer that question. Cause I just don't like to talk about him a whole lot or tell anything about him. For that very reason…

J: We try to be very careful that his picture is not taken. The issue really is…you know, we've seen…we've seen the good in our society, and we've seen the bad…and we know there's both. The good…far outweighs the bad…and that's the good news. But, there are bad people out there. And…you know, that's why…and people that aren't…their head's not screwed on right. And that's why you have John Lennon being shot, you know, out in New York…for no good reason.

And, so, we don't want Burke to be…identifiable.

P: I really wanted him to come today. In fact, I'd spoken to his Principal and all that…to get him out of school, because he's studying this privacy and the media all year. And then, at the last minute, I learned that it was open to the public…and, I just…I just…I mean, initially, I thought that we were going to be in your classroom at the university…so, I said to his Principal: "Oh, great…so, we can visit a college…and, you know…perfect topic to discuss…and then, you know…when that "open to the public" thing came out…I just…chickened out.

M: There is a line you draw with him. I mean, we have to talk about the lawsuit. That was the reason you sued -

J: Right.

P: Right.

M: - the tabloid. I mean…tell us about that.

J: Well, part of our responsibility…we feel…is that this is going to effect our children, it's going to effect their children…and who knows how far downstream that'll go? You know, Patsy and I…it's not a issue to us as to how people feel…whether 20% of the people feel we're guilty, or 80%. We know the truth…we, you know…are comfortable with…ourselves. But, we've got a responsibility to try to reclaim our good family name…for the sake of our children. And, so that's…that's really what's driving those kinds of efforts…I think, more than anything else…that's, that's why we've chosen to speak out. You know, a good criminal attorney will tell you…tell their client, "Look: if you're under suspicion by the police, my preference is to put you in a closet, close the door, tell the police to 'go prove it'…but, we're not gonna help you."

Any…that's Criminal Defense 101. And…uh, that's why, for three years, we never spoke out. Because our attorneys said, "You know, you're under investigation…under suspicion by the police…"

Uh, we are fully prepared to meet them in a full court of law, and I promise you…it's the only thing I'll promise you…we will…be victorious.

We'll win…there's no question about it. But, we're not going to practice our trade in front of a camera. And so, for three years, we…bit our tongue. You know, we wanted to say, "That's not true." You know…that's…and protect our name and our reputation…but, uh…we were strongly advised against us…against it.

M: It was Burke that was accused of, by the Star…was that the…

J: Oh…I think all of the tabloids…

M: …and the lawsuit? Do you feel that it was…that there was some justice, in how that was resolved?

J: Uh…it was settled. Uh…prior to a trial. And, uh…it was satisfactory to us.

I mean the only accountability, ultimately, that there is available, to a citizen against the media, regardless of who it is…is in court, and financial accountability. You know, we can't have them in prison because of the laws: they operate under the First Amendment. In fact, I've often thought of the tabloids as a…basically a form of organized crime operating under the protection of the First Amendment. But, they can be held accountable financially…still, very difficult to do, because most of the laws in this country…as they pertain to, you know…speech…are put together with the USA Today's and the Washington Post's, and the New York Times' in mind. And, they want to be very careful that they're protected so they can exercise their role in society.

The lowest of the low operate under the same rules. And, they're two different organizations.

End of Part Two of Three

7. "Momo...that's the reason I'm transcribing..."
Posted by Dunvegan on 10:17:40 3/25/2001
...this disgusting interview...

You can't get there from here...or anywhere!

Seems, the best I can figure, is that the Newseum leaves up webcasts for about 3 weeks, and then takes them down.

Here's what I could find at the web site for "Freedom Fourm" at:

http://www.freedomforum.org/templates/document.asp?documentID=13041

Webcasts of programs will be available at all times for about 24 hours, or until the next scheduled program. Friday Webcasts will be available continuously at all times, all weekend, until 11 a.m. Monday morning.

Freedom Forum does have an article, that they distilled from the interview: "Ramseys Urge Journalism Students to Use Press Powers Responsibly."

You can find it at:

http://www.freedomforum.org/templates/document.asp?documentID=3295

And, here's a copy of my original correspondence with the Freedom Forum, re. obtaining a free cassette of the Ramsey webcast (BTW - They said "2 weeks"...it took 6 months to arrive):

Subject: RE: INQUIRY: How could I get a copy of an audio cassette copy of a program?
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 17:17:51 -0400
From: Max Cacas

Thanks for writing. Please provide us with your postal mailing address, and we will try to get a tape copy of this program to you within the next two weeks.

Thanks for your interest in free! Radio programs.

- Max Cacas
- Online Producer

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 5:14 PM
To: webcast@freedomforum.org
Subject: INQUIRY: How could I get a copy of an audio cassette copy of a program?

Please forward me information on how I can obtain a cassette copy of the following program:

Monday, Oct. 16 2-4 p.m.; 4-6 p.m. Eastern - 'Inside Media:
Coverage and Controversies with the Ramseys.'
University of Maryland journalism students, other Newseum visitors examine role and behavior of the news media in covering controversial stories. Guests: John and Patsy Ramsey, parents of JonBenet Ramsey.
Moderators: Blake Morrison, USA TODAY; Eric Newton, Newseum news historian.
Co-sponsored by University of Maryland School of Journalism. Recorded Oct. 12 at the Newseum.

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PART 3 - Thursday, October 12, 2000
Newseum interview "Inside Media:
Coverage and Controversies with the Ramseys
http://thewebsafe.tripod.com/10122000ramseynewseum3.htm

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