Interview with Mystery Woman

transcript provided by: Maxi
March 10, 2000

MAME: Well, as I said earlier in our news audio, we are honored to have a time to talk with........ I am.... and with your help,. Mystery Woman. I don't like the name MW and I'm going to try not to use that but we do not want her name released. We hear that some members of the media have her name already, but we're not going to go there with it and again our point here today is to talk about the journey of a woman like this who has come forward and what it's taken to do that emotionally, spiritually, what courage so that's where we're going to go with this. We're not trying to solve the Ramsey case with this or any case with this but to talk, for me to have a talk woman-to-woman. with a person on this sort of journey.

FRANK: Okay.

MAME: so she has promised to call me any moment, I'm going to put you on hold and make sure that that happens and we'll be right back to you the sound I'm hoping will work so please bear with this on that one I'll be right back..I think that she will be on a cell phone so please bear with us.Frank"

FRANK: Yes, I'm here

MAME: Mystery Woman?

MW: Yes.

MAME: Oh, I hate that name. You're such a lovely, kind, smart young woman.

I'm going to start out reading an excerpt that I remembered from Jane Stobie's book, and I don't bring this up because there's any relationship or connect. But it is something that I read in her book that really moved me when I read the book. I shared this with you, my friend, I'm going try not to use the term Mystery Woman and it brought tears to her eyes , She explained to me the other day that she has trouble crying in front of people. It's hard for her. She's learned for years and years during her abuse to not cry, it didn't do her any good. I don't think But I'm going to read that so moved her and brought tears to her eyes ..and it does relate to the Ramsey case, but I think that any, I've spoken recently to several sexual abuse victims.and I think that they would all be moved by this

FRANK: Can we take a break for a second.

MAME: Sure

FRANK: Hold on.

MAME: "It is so cold down here. I am so scared and I hurt so bad.Where is Jacques? Where is my mama? I don't want to die.My head hurts so bad. Why did they leave me here?,,,They said I was bad. I feel so alone.My heart hurts..the floor is so cold. my body is so cold. Why did they do this to me and leave me all alone?. I am just a little girl and want to be loved..where is my dog. I need to see my dog.I know I am not that bad. Mama just gets crazy. I feel so alone and scared.

MAME: My friend, tell me how you felt when you were able to read that excerpt the other day

MW: Well , I felt that I knew exactly what she was talking about because I'd been there so many times before, myself.and you just want the abuse to end, and the people who are supposed to be protecting you are the people who are hurting you, and you just feel so lost, and you don't know where to go, and I also felt a little connection because. I always went to an animal, a dog or cat

MAME: Isn't that true. I mean you and I discussed that when we met the other day. But The people who have come forward the people in my life that I've know who have been abused,as children either emotionally, sexually ,physically, seem to all have a connect, a very special connection, to animals. Do you find that to be true?

MW: Yes, and it's just because animals don't hurt you and you know they don't try to make you do anything

MAME They don't judge you..

Right And they're just there

MAME: And they accept your love.

MW: Right

MAME: And friendship.

MW: Right.

MAME: Um, it's been quite, how long since you've hopped on a plane to come to Co.?

MW: Almost 3 weeks It will be three weeks on Sat. And It has been a roller coaster ride for me. I had to leave Ca. Because my life was in danger. And I'd had been recently abused and I didn't want that to happen again.

MAME:I want to make clear right now that.your abuse started at age 3, MW:Right

MAME: And it has continued up until how long ago?

MW: It would be about a month now

MAME: And you are still suffering from possibly severe medical issues related to the most recent abuse.

MW: That's true. And I've been seeking medical treatment since, oh, it was almost a week after I arrived here.

MAME: And because of past medical issues, you've had a hysterectomy

MW: Right

MAME: You've had how many surgeries did you tell me

MW: I had about 7 in one year.

MAME: And some of those surgeries were to repair botched surgeries

MW: That's true

MAME: And we won't go into that but we do believe that there is At least one doctor if not more over the years that was not exactly professional

MW: That's very true.

MAME: And may have been connected up to some of the abusers. MW:That's true

MAME: And We're not going to stop there. We're going to let.WE have an enormous respect. We question the investigation that we are told is going on now, But we are continuing until we know otherwise to show some respect for that. Just like we hope that they are showing some Respect for what they know and what they have to investigate with you So we're going to try not to go into evidentiary areas But anyway, Let's get back to where we were.

Tell me friend about your journey It was not meant, you did not plan, to rush out here in the way that you did However over your years of therapy with your dear, dear cohort and therapist whom I've spoken to and have an enormous amount of respect for And I believe she's the person, to her professional treatment of you for many years.has brought you to a place where you could stand tall and come forward But it wasn't - you saw Mr. Lee Hill, who is an atty in Boulder, on a national television show being interviewed about another case related issue

MW Right, and I.

MAME: Tell us about that

MW: All right, I saw him on a news program and felt that what he was saying was correct And that he seemed to me, just out of intuition that he would be a person who could help

MAME: Right

MW: I'd been keeping the info for the last thirty years not really knowing where to go or who to give the info too And I was also very frightened for my own life, if I did speak about what I knew

MAME: There were certain people that were sensing your uh your.the point you were at emotionally.

MW Right

MAME: And they worried that you might do something like that.

MW:They felt very threatened by what I know, and , so I, on their part that has been escalating.

MAME: Right

MW And so I just felt that I really needed to be able to tell what I know


MW to somebody in the event that something would happen to me.. And also so when I saw Lee Hill I felt that he would be someone I could trust Somebody that would be able to do something with the info that I had.

MAME: Right

MW: And so I went to a payphone

MAME: And was it that night

MW: It was that day

MAME: Or that day

MW: I went to a payphone and I talked to him for approximately . 20 minutes, I didn't tell him who I was or where I was necessarily. I just told him that I had information, and just gave him some general info about what I knew, .And he asked me if I would please call him back.

MAME: He was immediately open to what you had to say.

MW: Yes he was and so.

MAME: But your intuition was correct and I want to make a point here about intuition. That's another thing besides the connect up with animals ,the victims that I've spoken with and researched and t talked to, they all have an incredible intuition

MW: Right And I think it just felt right to me so After speaking to Mr. Hill, I called my therapist and told her that I had made this call to Lee Hill

MAME: And what was her response

MW She wanted to check him out

MAME: mmm..mmm..because you hadn't planned this out

MW: No, no. She wanted to check him out, check out his credentials, make sure that he would be person that would be good for me to speak to.. She did that and then Mr. Hill asked if it would be okay if he were to come out to personally interview me.

MAME: And that started the ball rolling. Right

MAME: And it was only escalated and moved up in the fashion that it was because of the pressure and the threat that you felt.

MW: Right, because I had been getting more and more telephone calls from family members, and also from members friends of my family

MAME: Even some people that are related to the Ramsey case

MW Right, and

MAME: And you were offered money

MW: Yes, I was. I was offered money if I would keep my mouth shut. My reply was that I didn't want the money and I would keep my mouth shut.

MAME: At that point you lied to protect yourself

MW: Right, I didn't want to say that I didn't want the money, that I was going to be you know showing this info to anybody

MAME: Right, so Lee Hill moved quickly and got you on a plane. You got yourself on a plane

MW: I got myself on a plane

MAME: Tell us how you felt then Here you were you wanted to stand tall how but what did you leave. How did you feel that day. What time of the day - or tell us the time frame

MW: It was one week later and um something had been going on like I said that I was being threatened and I had just recently been abused and so I figured that I needed to get out of California Because I felt that I would have great bodily harm done to me if I did not

MAME: Or you would not be around to tell your story.

MW: Right, And, at about 3 o'clock in the afternoon I spoke to Mr. Hill who arranged a flight for me from LosAngeles, and it um it was , I wasn't able to go back to my home, I left with the clothes that I had on and nothing else.

MAME:And your cat, your beloved cat.

MW: I just left her at my house.I wasn't'even able to return to my house

MAME: Right

MW: I wasn't able to say goodbye to um to anyone in my life at the time

MAME Were you feeling a huge sense of strength and .determination at that point

MW: I think that I was feeling very frightened and I just wanted to get to a place where I thought I would feel safe. And I would be protected.

MAME: And you were promised safety

MW: Right Yes I was.

MAME: And that hasn't totally come true

MW: Right And I just wanted to feel protected , and I just felt an urgency to tell what I knew.

MAME: Right.

MW: .And it was very, very difficult for me to just leave everything behind..

MAME: Especially. your therapist, your animals, you have a dear friend in your neighborhood, a little boy you told me about.

MW: Right

MAME: Who really depended on you as a friend.

MW: Right and I had many, many other friends and also I had a rep in the community for the work that I do in home health care, And it was something that I had built up over the years, and that's what I love to do and it was hard to just give that up.

MAME: those were the pure good things in your life that you had built on the spirited, wonderful side. You had a dual life all along since you were a child, right?

MW: Right, and I think that um I've never had what anyone would call a normal life And that's something I have wanted more and more over the last few years the chance to have a life, the chance to have a life free of abuse and stress.

MAME: I want to mention here that when we met in person the other day excuse me you showed me on your body a few marks that were put there over the years. I'm sorry I do get emotional and I know you do too.. You showed me on your body a few marks that were put there over the years You have a very evident cigarette burn. You have your initials on your ankle How old were you when the initials were carved in your ankle. MW: As best I can remember right now, I think that I was six year old, and it was done by an eraser, by rubbing an eraser on my ankle, and then taking a toothpick.

MAME: The eraser.explain that because I've never heard of that obviously.about that sort of thing.

MW: The eraser just made my skin raw, and then a toothpick was taken and my initials were carved into my ankle.

MAME: And I was able to see that. And And also in your neck. There are marks in your neck

MW: Uh-uh, but I don't want to go into what kind of marks

MAME: You have several marks on your body, Along with you emotional scars

MW: Right.: I think that what I would like people to know is that about me is that I'm just interested in just having the truth out to the public about what happened.

MAME: Right, right. You have turned over, you have chronicled and archived, with your therapist, documents, photographs, some, not really medical records, well Some medical records, school records, throughout the years and you have turned all of that over.

MW And I have signed a release for my therapist for all my records to the Boulder Police Dept. There's nothing that I have that I want to hide.

MAME: Right right and that's what our hope is that they will look at every single piece of information that you have handed over Interview every single person that they can related to..

MW: and um I just feel that some of the people that I gave them to to see while they were in Ca., I know that they were not contacted And I think that it was very important people. People who..a lady..An elderly lady who lived in a house next door to us in a house Los Ojos And Another woman who lived in an apt building . and she saw the way that we were being treated as children and just saw the amount of people that were in and out of my house.

MAME: And many of those people have not been, most of those people have not been contacted

MW: Well, those two neighbors were not contacted. People who know me as a person are character witnesses were not contacted either.

MAME: Not yet, anyway.

MW: Right,

MAME: And the people who who have been contacted The line of questioning was very..oops there goes my Sadie dog If she gets too loud, Frank, we can pause and I can see if I can calm her down. She loves my mailman..uh..and ..uh. The people that have been contacted, the line of questioning was very brief, correct?.

MW: Right, and um very brief and uh they weren't asked questions pertinent to the case.

MAME: Right

MW: Just uh questions.I'm not really sure the exact line of questioning, but I know that not much that pertained to the actual case

MAME: Right. And you spoke to the FBI.

MW: Yes. I did.

MAME: Uh but we have not heard that the FBI have contacted anyone else.. Even your therapist has not heard from the FBI yet.

MW: Right. And I did speak to the FBI, and I cannot get into what I talked to the FBI about.

MAME: But so we know that they were involved at a certain point, and we hope that they still are. Let's move on. Tell us about the last couple of weeks.You know, just give us some feelings about how you felt.

MW: Well, I think that it was a horrifying experience for me because I thought that like I said earlier that I would be put in some kind of protective custody and Um to this day that has not happened and I think it is very terrifying to be left with my own means In a place where I'm a complete stranger to try to figure out with my attorney where I should be and how. I think that I have felt a tremendous responsibility for my on safety.

MAME: Right, Right And I don't know where she is, and I have not asked to know where she is, but I do still have concerns for her safety.and that protection will continue until the investigation is complete

MW: I would like to say one thing, that after my five hour interview with the BPD I was given the investigator's card and told to go back to California Even though I explained to them the situation I was in and how I I had recently been abused and offered to you know be medically examined or.and I offered to be medically examined and I offered them some evidence of medical abuse. So I felt that.

MAME: I think the abuse is pretty evident right now. There are pretty severe medical issues being looked at here, and we won't go into that. Are you feeling some more strength these days you've seen and heard of reports, you have a great writer, Mr. B.J. Plasket who I've been working with, .who you've connected with. Are you starting to feel that people are catching on a little bit?

MW: I'm starting to feel that, but I can understand the confusion that people would feel about this because so many things are being left in the dark and it would cause anyone to question the story.

MAME: Right.

MW: And for me I've really wished that I could be more open to what to what has happened and be more open to getting that info out there but I also understand that there is an active investigation going on out there.Until I see what happens to that it's better to just let the law enforcement do their job.

MAME: But you have never read a book about the Ramsey case. Your therapist has, but -- it's amazing to me how little you know about the case.

MW: That's right. I've tried on purpose to stay away from any of the information about the Ramsey case to not taint my knowledge.

MAME: Right, right Now you are now in an unknown place, and how are you feeling about the future. Obviously you 've reached the point where you are startingt o miss those things that were familiar with you You have a good lawyer, and he is fighting, I feel, an uphill battle every day. You do have a DA who has pretty much stood behind and asked for the same kind of investigation that you are asking for.

MW:I would like to say something about the DA I have never met with him personally

MAME: Right. You were able to meet him.

MW: The only contact I've ever had with him, was during the five hour investigation cause he was in a different room than I was in, observing the interview, which I would like to say was an interrogation At one point he did come out.

MAME: I see.

MW: And that was the only time I've spoken to to Mr. Hunter

MAME:But you did sense a kindness and an openness to you.

MW:Right, and I felt that he was more open at looking to what I had to say

MAME: And he did request at one point that there be a female present.

MW: Um.No, he didn't request. there was something of an evidence..a kind of a.what am I trying to say.of a where ..a woman took me to take a picture of the abuse.

MAME: Oh, I see, okay. Well we don't want to go there. What else do you want to share? Talk to us. Now your therapist does not dabble in, or is she part of, a repressed memory therapy?

MW: No, she..she has never worked with me about repressed memory,and I don't believe I have ever had a repressed memories.

MAME: No, because your abuse was continued.

MW: Right, and I do not have time to repress my memory because the abuse was so continual and

MAME:And all part of the same group

MW: Right, And I started seeing my therapist in 1990 and the types of abuse have been documented since 1990

MAME:Are you feeling as strong as the day you called Lee Hill, and as determined.?

MW: I feel even more because I feel that, Not just for myself, but because there are still other children involved.

MAME: And they are at risk

MW: And they are at risk. And also I feel that, for my own life, this would be the only way for me to have any kind of a life is to get the truth out there and I think that there's a lot of protection in the truth.

MAME: I do too I do too. Your feeling toward the media, you do not, and I've seen you over and over IN the beginning very few people in the media even wanted to look at this. They were very skeptical, which is a fair thing to be. But as the days have gone by, the pressure from the media has become stronger and stronger We know that there are tabloids out there pursuing you. We've heard that one tabloid has your name and has threatened to publish it.

MW: I've actually been offered money for a picture of myself at the present time, and have told my attorney that is not the route that I would like to take

MAME: Right, right.

MW: I am much much more interested in having the truth be told

MAME: And you understand the role of the media, in the situation that the investigation does not proceed the way we'd all hope.. The media is a protection in our society And that's why this is a democracy IN that the media can come forward, those of us who feel a story needs to be told, and represent an underdog or the conscience of the community. You have an incredible perception of that

MW: I just feel that the media was the only way for me to turn if the investigation was not taken seriously.

MAME: Right. Because you have no interest to be the media spotlight You from what I've understood in the time that we've been together in our couple of interviews, you continue a quiet life and to build a life that you never really had. A full and complete life without secrets and abuse, family pressure, threats and I do hope and I believe with your spirit and dignity that you will be able to do us. You made a comment the other day when money was offered for a photograph that ,why would you even consider that, you were offered tons more than that to keep your mouth shut and stay home and be quiet

MW: Right Right. And that's not what this is about. For me this is about getting the truth out there. being a voice for somebody who no longer has a voice. This is about for me and always has been about the truth. And I would like to say, and this is something I feel very strongly about, I feel that had JBR been allowed to live, if she was still here, and she was the same age that I am at present And had gone through 10 years of therapy and decided, you know, this has to end and had gone to any kind of police dept or sheriff's office or whatever and tried to tell what had happened to her. I feel that she would have been meeting the same type of criticism I have in trying to report this.

MAME: That's right. And I think that you may not be able to see it now, but.maybe another little girl, twenty years from now, what you're doing now, or years from now, next week, next month, twenty years from now, you will pave the way for someone to come forward, alone, scared, leaving the only pets, family, that she has ever known. And you offer history and strength to a grown person or whatever, to do that.And I hope that that comes to be the case.

MW: Right And I think that there needs to be an awareness of what this type of abuse is about. And I think that this type of abuse has always been very difficult to prove. because of the pain of the crimes that these people commit against children and they make them so unbelievable-e that it becomes almost impossible to, for people to take it all in Right, or believe. we have a local radio person who went on. the radio and said This stuff doesn't happen and that upset me so much because I've spent 2 weeks researching these types of crimes. And they do happen. We have documented cases where they happened. They aren't just a fantasy. It is so hard in my belief for rich white folks to believe that other rich white folks..who might live on their block or in the next town and look perfectly normal on the outside.are involved in these kind of abuses of children. And I 'm here to tell them that it happens..And if they go and they do their research And they're willing to stay open and look deeper than their own front yard, that they will find it.

MW: And I think that is um one of the greatest tools that these people on the other side have, you know the credibility of the people that come forward, and the stories that they tell, appear to be unbelievable..

MAME: Right. We don't want to believe, I mean, so many things happen in our world that are poisonous and horrible and shootings and murders but this is in a whole other sphere and to add the child into this is another whole point. But I think we'll end there. And I thank you so much and I consider you a friend, you are one of the most honored women, I am honored to spend time to you. And I've been around a lot of women and I respect a lot of women but I almost feel a spiritual -uh -- think that there is something so. You're fueled by such pure spirit. And 'm going to end it there we're gong to end there, and I hope that we'll be able to talk again. And we won't stop talking, BJ and I, and Frank out there in Pennsylvania until we feel that this investigation is taking the appropriate course and giving you a fair shake. And we hope every young woman that comes forward, or man any human with this sort of story that sounds so unbelievable will get an ear and an open mind to investigate it.

MW: That's all I'm asking for

MAME: We thank you, we hope you are safe, we're going to push for your safety, and we love you, and we're glad you spent some time with us

MW: Thank you.

MAME: Thank you so much. Bye