Mame (Mary Mcardle Suma)
Interviews California Mystery Woman

May 19, 2000

Transcript by Mame and LovelyPigeon


Mame: Boy, it's been busy lately…around ol' Pleasantville.

Frank: It's good to be back and log on and follow what's happening whenever I want to.

Mame: Well, I'm glad you're there.

Frank: It's good to be bacK

Mame: It makes us all feel good. I'm sure Mrs. Brady is glad you're there…you always swoop in to save the day for the Divas.

Frank: Well, we're going to get whoever did this. They think that we're not…but, they are going to be "gotten"

Mame: Well, of all people the other day….Mr. Lou Smit, who I had the pleasure of meeting for the first time which my friend and I will talk about…He looked me in the eye and said "I will follow this everyday for the rest of my life…and I will find the culprit. So, I guess there are many people coming from different directions who feel the same way.

Mame: We are going to bring my friend on. I am going to refer to her today as "Bridget".

Frank: Bridget?

Mame: That was the name we called her when she came to stay here. We knew that with fifth greaders you could not give all the information, because it would be all around the playground the next day.

Frank: And my little Doodlebug, my 11 year old daughter, last week, when Bridget was back said "Mom, I can't call her…her real name. So I said, that's fine. I am going to refer to her as that, so I don't have to call her friend…or Witness…or whatever.

I am excluding the press release in the transcript in the need to save time. I have a copy of the press release I will post at the end of the typed transcript (Panscript)

Mame: That is their statement. I am going to reach my friend at a pay phone. And I will be back…

Frank: Allright. Do you need any change?

Mame: No…I am on my phone! She might need some though.

Frank: laughs…

Mame: I think she might need a lot more than change. Anyway, I'll be right back with you. Thank you.

Frank: Hello.

Mame: OK, we're going to get my friend on and move along.

Mame: Speak up, Frank!

Frank: Yeah…I was over by the machine.

Mame: Later, we'll tell how you just saved my butt…but, I'm not going into it now…

Frank: Well, I've got two sets of headphones on. One with you in one ear. And another set of headphones with another conversation that's going on.

Mame: Oh, what's the other one?

Frank: It's with a friend of mine, Steve Michael..

Mame: Hmmmm. OK..I hope we're as interesting…Well, anyway, I've got my friend here, who I'm calling "Bridget" with us here today. And we are ready to talk, talk, talk…give some information…talk about her recent trip to Pleasantville…and all the news of the last few days. We welcome you "Bridget"…we called you "Bridget" when you stayed in my home, because it is a name that is VERY important in my family. And, it is also a name that a dear friend called you.

Bridget: That's right. A very dear friend called me "Bridget" when I would help her with little dinner parties that she would have…I would help her clean up…So, she decided that I was "Bridget"…

Mame: Yes, the Irish upstairs maid…or whatever. That was the old name they used to refer to the Irish "help".

Frank: I just want to remind everyone to speak up.

Mame: OK, so I have many "Bridget's" in my family…you came to me as "Bridget"…so we will call you "Bridget" today…We were going to start with "the journey"…but, my editor stepped in and said "". So we're making you replay right now. I have such a good editor that he helped me. I have to mention that!

Mame: So, you came back. We got to see each other. But, when you were here last week… And, we'll talk a little more in a few minutes about…how you got here…why you had to come…that you were called back to Pleasantville/Boulder by the BPD to answer questions. Correct?

Bridget: That's right. They had some, they said a few questions that they wanted to ask me before they tied up loose ends.

Mame: Right. And, when did you find out, has it been eleven weeks? It's been since the end of February, that you came to Boulder and met with them. At what point…In the beginning they never mentioned they wanted you back for questions. But, at a certain point you realized they wanted you back. Do you remember when that was? About half way through, right?

Bridget: About half way through. I think that (it was) the first week of April that I spoke to one of the detectives there at the Boulder Police Department. And, he asked me about coming back to Boulder on the 25th of April.

Mame: Right. And you received no calls from them, and maybe I'm wrong. Correct me if I'm wrong. But, you received no calls from any investigator during those weeks, asking a question or asking for a clarification on anything?

Bridget: That's correct.

Mame: But, you kept in contact. Your lawyer did, but you also called them directly…spoke with at least two different investigators on the JonBenet Ramsey case.

Bridget: That's correct.

Mame: Right. So you came back. They wanted you back at the end of April. The date they picked was your birthday. You originally said, sure I'll come. But, then you realized that might not be the best day to come. Can you tell us why? There are several reasons why…

Bridget: I think the main reason for me was that, that was a date that a lot of my abuse had ocCurRed on.

Mame: I might add that in my research birthdays and holidays are very significant in these sorts of long term abuse situations. Correct?

Bridget: Right. So, I did not want to go back to Boulder on that day. I called and asked if I could come the next day, or the day after that. And at first I was told, yes. Then I was told, no, I wouldn't be able to do that. That I needed to reschedule.

Mame: And, people close to you were receiving more frequent messages.

Bridget: Right. And, they were about, that when I did go back to Boulder I was going to be arrested by The Boulder Police Department for filing false allegations.

Mame: And, that was always a fear of yours?

Bridget: And, I was told that I was going to be going to prison.

Mame: And you were also told that, and we don't know if this is true or not, messages got to you, through other people close to you that you that they had an "in" with the Boulder PD.

Bridget: Right.

Mame: Now, we and I want to make that clear, we are not saying, and we have not verified that, but, that's what they were dishing out.

Bridget: Right, and that one of the people close to this case, had hired a private detective/investigator to go after me.

Mame: Right. And they went so far as to say, that, that detective, and the money behind it, were in town…were in Boulder.

Bridget: That's true. And that was just a couple of days before I went back to Boulder.

Mame: So, whether it was your birthday, or any day, coming back here, and knowing full well…at least from your initial discussions and interview with the police, and the few conversations you had over these weeks. You didn't think, none of us thought anything would come of this?

Bridget: That's correct. I felt that more of their investigation, the Boulder Police Department's investigation, was centered around trying to discredit me, as opposed to looking at the information that I brought forward, in a non-judgmental way.

Mame: Right. And, along the way, you started to feel more like a suspect, than a witness, didn't you?

Bridget: Yes, I did. I think the way I was treated, especially the first time with the Boulder Police Department, I very much felt like a suspect.

Mame: There wasn't a sense of respect and open-mindedness to you…kindness to hear your story. Regardless of how they felt about it, It was quite evident that they didn't want to hear what you had to say. And, it took a lot to get them to hear it.

Bridget: That's correct. So the second…I felt very resident to come back to Boulder. Reticent…I meant to say, reticent.

Mame: You knew that you wanted to answer any question. You knew that from day one. But, coming back into Boulder County…uhhhh…was scary.

Bridget: It certainly was.

Mame: So, you came, you saw, you certainly didn't conquer. But, you did come back. So tell us about last week.

Bridget: I think that because two victim's advocates came forward for me. And were present in Boulder when I was there. One, a lady from California…another from Utah…

Mame: Jeanne Adams, a victim advocate and criminologist from Utah. And Linda Redd, a victim's advocate and criminologist from California. So they stepped up to the plate, heard about you, contacted your attorney, your therapist and boom. They got a last minute call that you were going to come, and they said they would come with you. Incredible….great ladies.

Bridget: They spoke to the Boulder Police Department, a couple hours before I went in there to try to educate them about ritual abuse.

Mame: They train police departments about ritual abuse as well.

Bridget: Yes, they do. And I went in there. I think it was after 1pm on Wednesday afternoon.

Mame: So they paved the way. They were treated with respect. The met with the BPD's victim assistance person. Right?

Bridget: And, one of the investigators.

Mame: One of the investigators for the Ramsey case. Thenyousteppedin. We walked through the front doors, which I wrote about last weekend, with these fine women. Several of us, you and your attorney, and you went behind closed doors. How long were you in there?

Bridget: For about two hours and fifteen minutes.

Mame: uh..huh. And, it was a much different tone this time. Tell us. Do tell.

Bridget:they started off the conversation by telling me they had heard many good things about me, it wasn't all bad , and they talked a little bit about my work. and then the lead detective at the time just went into asking me some questions about some of the names that I had given them as part of their investigation. They also asked me about my therapy again, and they did not ask me for content, but the context of my therapy. But they were a lot more polite.

Mame: They were polite and civil. What your sense was from that meeting and those people you know were questioned, you know the line of questioning, the quality of the questioning, you felt the investigation still might not have been fully done.

Bridget: That's right. I saw where they said that 22 people were interviewed, but to me they could have interviewed 122 people. It was the way they conducted some of the interviews with people that, with my friends in California, they had put a slant on it from the very beginning where they were asking questions about if I was a liar, did I make up stories, had they ever seen any instances of abuse. And also with my therapist, who I saw on and off for 10 years, they spent an hour and 15 minutes with her, and weren't real interested in the content of my therapy but were interested in how they did therapy.

Mame: which is important as well...but let's stop here for a second and go back and state very clearly that the allegations that you have made to the Boulder police and the FBI, you met with both those when you first came to Boulder, are huge! And only a small portion of that has information that you believe may be vital to solving the Ramsey case, or help. The boulder police, their piece of this a smaller peiece. Nevertheless, it's an important, a very important piece. So, in your allegations, are, in your history of abuse, parallels many key points we know about how JonBenét Ramsey died.

Bridget: Correct. My therapist has already said it, but that I should put it out there again, that the allegations that I made towards the person in the Ramsey case, were made prior to 1995.

Mame: I think the quote she gave me one time was 99% of what you have to say what documented prior to the death of JonBenét Ramsey.

Bridget: And I'd also just like to just right come out and say there is a connection between my family and the people that were...

mame: at least some of the people

Bridget: Right. The people that were the other family that was at least in attendance on the day that JonBenét's body was found.

Mame: ok, can you tell us, maybe for the first time, I don't know if it's for the first time what made you believe...well...first of all, you don't know for SURE , uh, about any of these things, you werent' present here. What you were told by your mother, in a sort of , what, was it in a bragging sort of way, right?

Bridget: yes, in a phone conversation, that she and my niece were at the person's Christmas party the night before JonBenét was murdered.

Mame:rrrrrriiiiggghhhhttt....I think it was a couple nights before, wasn't it? Or was it the night before?

Bridget: well, it could have been the night

Mame: Right...there were several incidents that we had hoped they would look into, were told how soon after JonBenét's death?

Bridget: the day after

Mame: Ok. so you were told that your niece, who's a young child, who you love very much, and another relative were here.

Bridget: right, that's correct. and I was also told at that time that a certain person had actually murdered JonBenét. The person didn't go into any details, just didn't tell me that much

Mame:and what did you think at the time? did you know, or did you sense any connection to this child's death? had you even heard about it at that time?

Bridget: I don't think that I had even heard about it, but then shortly after I did, and ....

Mame: Well that must have been enough for you to wake up and smell the coffee maybe...

Bridget: right, and when I heard about the way she had been killed, uh...

Mame:were you shocked?

Bridget:I can't say I was shocked, I can't say that it surprised me

Mame: mmm hmmm

Bridget: because of my own experience with some of the people who were in attendance

Mame: mmmhmmm. and some of those people you have a long history with.

Bridget: yes, I do. and my mother's godfather is who I said, who I say, he is

Mame: mmhmm

Bridget: and I have a lot to prove that connection between the family that I was raised in and taht family.

Mame: Right. So, you found out that out then, and for three long years you lived with it.

Bridget: That's correct.

Mame: so that must have caused a lot of struggle.

Bridget: it did, but I also told my therapist about that and about...she knew about the connection already with the one party, and so she was not at all surprised.

Mame: right. and you, on purpose, didn't read a lot about the didn't read the book, you didn't get on the internet ...I know that full well, because all of this was new to you

Bridget: Correct.

Mame: You'd grab one of my books...

Bridget: right

Mame: or you'd get on the internet with was a whole new ballgame for you

Bridget: That's correct. I didn't want any of my information to be corrupt.

Mame: So, again, what pieces do you think connect in the actual abuse...I mean, what are the alarm bells that go off...the garroting...

Bridget:The garotting. Um...

Mame: Stop at the garotting for a second. That was old were you when that started with you?

Bridget: Well, it was ever since I can remember. So...I'd say at about age three.

Mame: and that was done to please the perpetrator, correct?

Bridget: that's true. It was done to elicit a response...a sexual a little girl who wasn't able to.

Mame: Right, right. Now..the garotting...what else? Is there anything else, besides the relatives who claimed, or she claimed, your mother did, that there were people here in your family, were there any other things in the Ramsey case, in JonBenét's murder that set off bells for you?

Bridget:The heart that was drawn on her...

Mame:Why the heart?

Bridget: because that was certain things that would be done at, I don't know what you would even call them...ceremony would not be a correct word for these types of events.

Mame: Right. And why did they...I don't think I ever asked you that...was the heart ever drawn on you?

Bridget: Yes.

Mame: Really?!

Bridget: Yes. My mom had a special hope chest made for me that was handpainted and every ws pink hearts and ...

Mame: With what in it?

Bridget: with pink hearts and pink roses.

Mame: Really?! So that might the outside, but hearts were you think it was done to remind you as part of the..uh...I don't want to use programming...but was it?

Bridget: As part of the events.

Mame: the events?

Bridget: Yes, the events . Oftentimes as a child I was given certain token gifts to remind me of certain events.

Mame: many of those gifts, as I've done research are typical gifts given in other abuse situations.

Bridget: that's correct. I was given bears. Clowns.

Mame: A ring.

Bridget: A ring.

Mame: what type of ring was that?

Bridget: It was a garnet ring...

Mame: And the garnet ring was ...seemed to be signficant.'s get back to the connect up to the Ramsey case, the garotting. And that was done to you how many years, until you were how old?

Bridget: Well, I think the garotting has gone into the present date.

Mame: and the garotting, the people there, the heart, what else?

Bridget:I think...uh....mainly it was the garotting and the way that she was found and for me it was even more alarming when I found out that her body had just been wiped clean.

Mame: why that?

Bridget: Because they wouldn't have wanted to be have left her body with several different people's fingerprints on it, ya know.

Mame: right. so there was some damage control, big time cover-up done, well, we know that already in JonBenét's death. Or they assume that. What umm...

Bridget: Also I would like to say that as a child--and this is very well documented--that I was often hit in the head. and that was done because if you hit somebody in the head, you don't have these huge bruises or things that people can outwardly see.

Mame: right. When were you first stun gunned?

Bridget:(long pause) As a child. When they would use cattle prods...

Mame: back then, uh huh.

Bridget: right

mame: then they moved on up to stun guns. And what was the use? why?

Bridget: to put you in a position of being in submission. And I think that, you know, a stun gun renders you senseless...

Mame: does it?

Bridget: yes , it does.

Mame: And where? were there specific sposts where?

Bridget: yes, on the back of my neck and on my bottom.

Mame: And those were typical places.

Bridget: yes.

Mame: and do you know, why there? Again, the head, so it could be covered up...

Bridget: right. Again, a lot of the ways that I would be abused were so that they could be covered up . the other thing that I wanted to say about why I felt so strongly about the people involved was that when I was growing up these events would take place , surrounded, you know, at the holiday times, and it would be a way for members of my family and people involved with them to get in and out and have a lot of people around without causing a lot of suspicion.

Mame: right. Lots of cars on the street. The people who stayed for the second party was a smaller group, right?

Bridget: yes...

Mame: K

Bridget: ...definitely. I think it was something that one of the detectives asked me when I was there, about, Well, how did I know that the death of JonBenét and what I went through had any connection at all and I can just say to you that how I know that is because I lived through it.

Mame: And you don't KNOW that, for sure, that it does, but parallels, and the..uh..consistent..uh...things that you ...the procedures...were more than you, that a logical person can turn their mind and eyes from.

Bridget: Yes. And I have been wanting...two really things..and I've wanted to be very respectful of the investigation that was going on with the Boulder Police Department, and I was offered money time and time again...

Mame:Right! I saw you offered money and I saw you turn things down ..uh...right and left.

Bridget: and the reason that I did that I did do that was that I felt that they should be given every opportunity to investigate.

Mame: right . And that was a shock to people watching this case, because there are very few people involved in, watching this case that didn't grab their 15 minutes, if offered. So I thin that ha! it was sorta the reverse of questioning ...We want more! we want to hear more!

Bridget: Yes, but I would like to say in no uncertain terms that my allegations about certain people, treating me, about garotting me, were made way before the death of JonBenét Ramsey.

Mame: right. And that has been stated before but we need to continually restate that to remind people of that. also there is some point, I saw somewhere recently someone said Well how could she be in therapy for 10 years and the therapist, mary bienkowski, they checked into how long she had been registered in California, and the reason for that is, when you first started seeing Mary she was an intern.

Bridget: correct, under a doctor.

Mame: and she went on to build a fine practice and work for the DA's office. Was that before she opened her practice?

Bridget: No, it was..she worked for a district attorney's office in another county before she opened her own practice. But she worked for the rape-crisis center in San Luis Obispo.

Mame: Right. so, you started seeing her when...ahhhh...she began in the profession.

Bridget: yes

Mame: As an intern, and then she went on to build a practice. I wanted to make that clear. OK..back to the Ramsey case. So, you couldn't prove anything, but you had enough there...the family connection, the looooong generational family connection of your family with this other family, your mother saying that people had been in Boulder that night, uh, did she continue to tell you that over 3 years?

Bridget: Yes, she did, she did.

Mame: and did she say anything else?

Bridget: she always made references, as did my grandma, to one particular person that's a member of that family being the actual person who murdered JonBenét Ramsey.

Mame: did it sound like, like she had information...uh...did you think she was told you think she witnessed it...did you make any sense of that?

Bridget: I'm not really sure about that, but I just know that it was repeated over and over.

Mame: sooooo, you believed it! And given what your history was...

Bridget: And I still believe it.

Mame: And lets just mention a couple of other things. You had blonde curls and blue eyes, right? We're going to put some pictures up later on the site when we've, when the audio goes up, of you as a kid. And, 6-year-old birthdays are important, right?

Bridget: Yes, they are. It's like a uh uh ceremony inducting you into this group of people.

Mame: Uh, a great..uh..membership, huh.

Bridget: And it also both happened on your 6th birthday and Christmas.

Mame: the Christmas of your 6th birthday, right.

Bridget: right

Mame: Anything else that you felt connected up or that you were told that paralled your past abuse?

Bridget: (long pause) It's just, um, I think, everything paralled my past abuse...

Mame: right

Bridget: and I was treated like a piece of property


Bridget: when I was growing up ..the longing and...

Mame: Were you filmed during any of this?

Bridget: Yes, I was.

Mame: All the time?

Bridget: No it wasn't all the time, but it was on certain occasions.

Mame: But it was, the use of the garotting not only for the pleasure of the person garotting you, but also for fim?

Bridget: Yes, it was. And when I was growing up, the garotting was almost always done by one person and it was a man who horrifically abused me...

Mame: That you put in jail!

Bridget: Yes.

Mame: At one point.

Bridget: yes.

Mame: so he was THE Garotter.

Bridget: yes.

Mame: right. all those years

Bridget: right.

Mame: What a job, huh.

Bridget: right. and I thought that was very significant also, that this was a man who had trained himself for several years how to do the garotting and he was no longer available.

Mame: right, he had died prior, not too long, prior to this murder.

Bridget: right

Mame: so in your mind you were thinking, Whoops, somebody was doing a job that they didn't know how to do.

Bridget: right

Mame: Ya know it's a sick thought, it's a logical leap.

Bridget: right

Mame: what made you finally come forward? You knew damn well...let's tell..well, one of the big questions out there is, I guess it's a logical question, ah, it isn't to me now, because I've researched this and opened my mind and talked to professionals, major professionals at major medical, psychiatrists, victims' rights people, victims themselves,have written me and I've talked to them, but one big question is, Well, Hell, why didn't she leave, why didn't she tell, and just get up and leave? She was an adult. Tell us tried over the years, right?

Bridget: Right, ever since 1979, when I brought original charges against the person who ended up going to jail. I mentioned it at that time, about being garotted, I was 17 at that time. I mentioned about that, and about all the pornography and the pornographic movies.

Mame: You were asked to watch some of those movies, weren't you, from time to time?

Bridget: Yes.

Mame: Movies that you were in?

Bridget: Yes, as a child. And also, other, pornographic movies. And, in fact, at my mom's place, there was a movie screen in the outside patio that you could just pull down, and that's where, it wasn't just me, but that's where my family would take me to watch these...

Mame: No Disney movies for you.

Bridget: No.

Mame: Unfortunately.

Bridget: So, then, I continued to report several different occasions and it was a horrendous experience for me because when I was reporting, there wasn't any kind of knowledge about this kind of abuse.

Mame: so who were you reporting this to? How old were you when you first started reporting?

Bridget: I was 17 years old. and I first reported it to the district attorney of Encinco(?) county.

Mame: And did he believe you?

Bridget: yes, he did.

Mame: and is he the same district attorney who successfully prosecuted this man, The GAROTTER?

Bridget: Uh, I believe it is.

Mame: Ok. Tell us about that case quickly. There were 64 counts and he pled down to how many?

Bridget: 4

Mame: 4. Over what period of time?

Bridget: Well, it started in May of '79 at a preliminary hearing, and there were 5 postponements between May of '79 and July of '80 , and at that time, he pleaded "no contest".

Mame: so once they got him down to 4 of 64, he went down.

Bridget: Right. and I was very much harrassed at the school at that time that I was attending. A person called in a bomb threat. On the football field, on the brick walls all around, there were different slang type sayings about me...

Mame: What, your name, right?

Bridget: My name. they had taken, whoever did this, had taken a effigy, I think that's the right word, and had hung it at the goal post...

Mame: Uhn.

Bridget: with a noose around it's neck...

Mame: Oh! I can't imagine...

Bridget: they went into the post office, the local post office, and they had taken a picture out of the year book and blown it up and put all kinds of different things under my name, Wanted for this, for different things and...

Mame: and this was prior and during the prosecution of this man

Bridget: yes, right

Mame: So, he went to jail. But you tried other times after that to report other things, right?

Bridget: Right, but when he was released, I had moved to a different state.

Mame: How long was he in jail, again?

Bridget: I think for a total of 10 months.

Mame: (laughs) Ok.

Bridget: And when he was released, he immediately came to where I was living, and started...

Mame: Were you living in another state then?

Bridget: yes, I was.

Mame: You had left to protect yourself and build a new life.

Bridget: I had left and actually I had been told by the district attorneys office that it would be a good idea for me to leave, so I did, I moved to a different state, started in on a job, and I had my own place and then he started showing up.

Mame: And, then, how soon did the abuse start again?

Bridget: (pause) Well, shortly after he was released from prison...

Mame: And it continued up until he died.

Bridget: Correct, and, uh, I think, I have even seen how could a 37-year-old woman let these things continue to happen, and I would just say to that, that, to those people that you have not been in my shoes , you don't know how hard I tried to get away, and ...

Mame: and that's typical of any abuse victim

Bridget: and I just did not want to just stand and take it, takes a real effort to have this stopped...

Mame: And each time.. ahhh... you were scorned and called nuts or a liar or whatever.

Bridget: that's correct.

Mame: so you give up after a while. I dont just hear that from you. I hear that from many people who have written people who have been involved in knowing you and your story. So, let's move on. You, right after the 3 years, we've already gone over and it's well documented how you saw Lee Hill on television and you came forward. You called him, he listened, you ultimately came to Boulder, you talked to the police, you talked to the FBI. And I want to mention that the FBI, from what we understand, is still investigating, you were told that investigation may take a verrrry long time. Correct?

Bridget: correct

Mame: and they treated you very well when you met with them...

Bridget: yes, they did...

Mame: here in colorado

Bridget: I met with one agent in particular and he was very kind , he was very interested in what I had to say, but at the same time he also told me, as I walked out the door, he would not be able to give me information what they were or weren't doing.

Mame: And it may take a year, or, or longer.

Bridget: Right.

Mame: Ok. And you've contacted them along the way, and you have no idea where that investigation stands, correct?

Bridget: Correct. All they could tell me that it was turned over and is being looked at by several different agencies.

Mame: and the boulder police mentioned that in their press release yesterday that they forwarded information to them.

Bridget: Correct.

Mame: So, there is, hopefully, still an investigation going on in another plane. so, you came forward, you talked to them again last week, and you believe, at least your sense is that iy could have been investigated more fully.

Bridget: That's correct. and I think, you know, that one of the things that was frustrating for me was that all these calls and these messages were left for me and there was an actual call log and it was not investigated.

Mame: Oh! they told you that.


Mame: Because your hope was that they could document calls to another relative, who came forward, who lives out here, who says she got a call from those relatives when they were here, right?

Bridget: Right.

Mame: That you hoped that would all be looked at, that airline tickets , you know the things that you can use to connect up.

Bridget: the Boulder Police Department told me unequivocally they had knowledge that my mother and my niece were not in Boulder on that night.

Mame: They said they were here for another holiday!. Halloween...

Mame: Halloween!

Bridget: they said they were in boulder for another holiday, Halloween.

Mame: Uh huh. And you'd never heard of the Halloween visit had you?

Bridget: No.

Mame: Ok. So you don't feel that they checked out those areas.

Bridget: I feel that they could have checked out those areas, that area, but the people involved certainly had 3 1/2 years to have a very solid alibi.

Mame: Sure. And they weren't picked up off, I mean the Boulder Police Department called ahead and sorta made an appointment a week out..

Bridget: I know the Boulder Police Department gave my mother a week and a half notice that they were coming to see her.

Mame: and you had notified them about particular items of evidence and their location in a few it's kind of...

Bridget: I had told them that I felt there were certain evidence stuff in place and that was one of the things that I feel strongest about was that the Boulder Police department called my mother and gave her a week and a half's notice that they were coming to see her.

Mame: right, so she could clean.

Bridget: right.

Mame: had to get ready for those guys.

Bridget: I also felt that perhaps, they could have tried calling a couple of these people if they had not released the information that I was actually speaking to them at the Boulder Police Department.

Mame: sure! It didn't help them to tip that off in a lot of respects, not only for your security, but they might not have known that you were here for a very long time. So, those are the basic things, right?

Bridget: Right.

Mame: that you really wanted investigated. There are more particular things that we don't plan to name names or go into any further, but we do think it's important to let those who follow this have more information at this point so they know what you're talking about. They did respect you last week, but did they tell you at that time they were going to be closing the case?

Bridget: Yes, they did.

Mame: And, we assume that, that that was the case. There was made mention, I don't know if they mentioned it to you then, that somewhere along the way they had to protect certain people.

Bridget: Yes.

Mame: in the case.

Bridget: Yes.

Mame: and so, are there any other items that you felt should have been investigated and you're not sure...

Bridget: Well, I just think that one of the main connections with my family to this other family I was told that she was only interviewed for a very very short period of time because she was very ill.

Mame: right. and she's sort of the grande damé, the Connection.

Bridget: Yes. and also...

Mame: she was too ill to be interviewed, right?

Bridget: yes. and also another very close member of my family, my immediate family, was not investigated because of an illness that he has.

Mame: I see.

Bridget: and so I thought it was two very key people that were not...

Mame: that were not talked to, really

Bridget: right. and one of the people that I have accused of abusing me as a child up til at least by April 7, by the boulder police's own admission, had not even interviewed him.

Mame: Was he part of this and beating?

Bridget: Not directly...BUT when I asked them about that they told me it was really none of my business whether or not I had investigated this person.

Mame:Right. Initially, in a prior conversation, they said they still needed to talk to him but when you ASked about it, they told you it was none of your business, later.

Bridget: correct

Mame: Ok, so we assume that person was talked to, but we don't know for sure.

Bridget: correct

Mame: YOu had hoped that phone records would be looked at to document the fact that you were receiving at a relative's house, calls from this person, offers to come to a second home, in another state, and you don't know if these things were checked out.

Bridget: I do not.

Mame: Ok, you lost there. You've walked away from your life. You had worked very hard, your career as a health aid. You worked very hard for, and a reputation for, a car you just paid off, credit cards that you've always paid on time, your pet, your home, and now I don't even know where you are...but where do we go from here? You're respecting the FBI investigation, right?

Bridget: I am.

Mame: are you still, are you glad you did this? Not glad, but are you still committed to your initial steps to call Lee Hill and move forward?

Bridget: I am still very comitted to this entire process. I am still here for anymore questioning. And I stand behind what I've said all along.

Mame: now, they didn't show one ounce of interest in knowing more, right?

Bridget: that's correct. the only thing they wanted to know more about was my years in therapy.

Mame: Oh, they asked you more about that this time?

Bridget: right. But not what I had discussed with my therapist, only how she conducted herself as a therapist.

Mame: I see. where do you think they were going with that?

Bridget: well, I think from other conversations I heard that they had other people that they would, there was always a contention that they were trying to ascertain if my therapist was just wanting me to say all these things.

Mame: that she was putting these thoughts in your head, right?

Bridget: correct

Mame: that she was stun gunning you and to the bone, and UH! and putting those garotte...did you ever have marks from the garotte?

Bridget: Yes, I did.

Mame: Were some...did they mean to do that? or did it just happen as part of the abuse?

Bridget: Well, I think that sometimes they meant for that to happen. Most of the times I think they were, tried to be very careful in that they did things in certain ways so that if there were any marks, they would heal very quickly.

Mame: and were any of those ever severe?

Bridget: yes.

Mame: they were?

Bridget: yes, a couple of times they were severe enough to where I thought I was actually going to die.

Mame: Really. And do you think that that was , on some of those occasions at least, that that was an accident that that happened?

Bridget: yes, I do

Mame:So, the FBI, we hope, is still investigating. You keep, you have no money left, very little money left, but you're starting to build support from some professionals out there. and the other reason you stepped forward, probably the biggest reason, not just yourself, because you had probably at a certain point I think you told me had given up on having truth told and to find professionals and respectible persons to listen to you. Especially people in the criminal justice system where you live.

Bridget: right, I have a niece that I'm very concerned about and I'm very concerned about another little girl who has family connections.

Mame: I see.

Bridget: and I wish with all my heart that when I was growing up, that somebody, an adult, in the situation, had come forward to try to help me.

Mame: (whispers) right. So that's what fueled you, really. Because otherwise you were still being abused, but you knew what a hard road it was, we all know that even if you do get in a courtroom and be believed, is tough, but you couldn't fathom, you couldn't stand the thought of other children going through what you went through, especially one that you loved and were close to

Bridget: that's very correct.

Mame: Did she ever mention being here?

Bridget: (long pause) Well, she lived in that area. And there was one incident that I really don't want to go into, that...

Mame: there were signs, right?

Bridget: right

Mame: Stress, and, uh...

Bridget: right. Let's just say that she was trying to jump out of my car, thinking that she was going to be taken somewhere and she was going to be hurt. And it wasn't that it was my car...she didn't even know where she was at, but she was trying to jump out of my car. and her brother was there, and...

Mame:what do you think prompted it?

Bridget:Because she had, she had seen at a store, that had somehow triggered her, and she became hysterical.

Mame: that brought back memories.

Bridget: Actually, it was a binder that had a picture of a Barbie on it.

Mame: Barbie?

Bridget: yes.

Mame: I see. So, ok, anything else? anything else that you want to say today?

Bridget: Yes, I would. I would like to like to address my reason for speaking to Lou Smit.

Mame: OH! ok, good!

Bridget: and Ollie took me about an hour of them sitting right in front of me, and talking to me, for me to decided whether or not I wanted to talk to them.

Mame: Not only that, but you knew ahead of time that they had asked for information through your attorney about your allegations. And you knew they wanted to talk to you, and you consulted with several people about whether you should do that or not. Really at first you didn't want to do it.

Bridget: No I didn't.

Mame: and I refused to consult on it because I felt I couldn't really advise you, but several other people that you trusted, did, and so you at least agreed to meet with them. I was present for that meeting. And for a full hour you quizzed them, to a point afterwards I thought you should go to law school because you were such a bright, articulate, clear person on what your goals are. But tell us about that because there are misconceptions out there. For instance you never wanted that released to the press, it was a private meeting, but it was released.

Bridget: Right

Mame: but go ahead

Bridget:What I would like to say about that is that what I knew about they had some information already, and I wanted to know if the information they had, to be looking into these allegations to be true and correct.

Mame: right

Bridget:And I felt for the best way for them to have true and correct information was if it came right from me.

Mame: right. but you still weren't sure.

Bridget: No. I wasn't. And I think that ...

Mame: and you kept back many things from them.

Bridget:Right. and I think that my opinion, especially of Lou Smit, was that he's a seeker of the truth and that he will go down whatever road the truth leads him and ...

Mame: A much different impression that we've gotten through the media and uh...I was really taken with Lou Smit, as a person, you know, we haven't gotten into different theories and so on and so forth, but another misconception, possibly, of a person in this case, because of 3 long years. But he was very impressive, he was very supportive of you, in fact yesterday contacted me to how much he respected your courage in coming forward.

Bridget: And I think that he was quite willing to ask me the hard questions that needed to be asked. but he did it in a considerate way. Considerate of my person.

Mame: he was one of the few people, probably including myself, until I got to know you better, what emotional toll it takes to talk about these things. It is a very draining emotional and physical experience.

Bridget: right. and I think that he was, that one thing about him that very much impressed me was that he asked me the one question that the Boulder police never asked me.

Mame: what was that question?

Bridget: and that was where was I

Mame: huh when?

Bridget: December 1996

Mame: that's right, he did didn't he, and what did you say?

Bridget: I told him I was with friends and family.

Mame: and her family and that can be documented. The Boulder police never asked you that, huh?

Bridget: No. and so to me, he is seeking the truth. He asked the hard questions and he did them in a very professional manner.

Mame: He also made it very clear, and has made it clear since, that regardless of where this path goes, at least he committed to you and to me and to others that were in attendance at that meeting that he was a seeker of the truth, no matter what.

Bridget: Correct. I think they were also very open. He allowed me to have a tape recorder conversation.

Mame: You wouldn't do without it and a copy in your hand.

Bridget: a copy before they ever left. so I think he treated me with the utmost dignity

Mame: (laughing) one of the most dignified of all, ironically

Bridget: Yes

Mame: and let us also state that you consulted with several people that you respect, professionals in many fields, and those people involved in criminal justice and investigations of all kinds, really looked down the road and said , What's the worst that can happen in talking to these people?

Bridget: And I wanted to say too that I made it very clear to them that I was in no way, shape, or form taking the other party off the hook.

Mame: right. that in doing so you're not trying to exonnerate possible people involved in JonBenét Ramsey's murder.

Bridget: Right.

Mame: So we need to make that clear, that was not the case. AND I will never forget, and I wrote about it last weekend, you looking into these investigators eyes and saying I have worked hard to keep my story pure and I need to do everything to continue to keep it pure.

Bridget: Right.

Mame: and they respected that. and you even had them leave the house after the hour drilling by "lawyer Bridget" before they came back in and you gave them your answers whether you would talk with them or not. they respected that and also respected the fact that you need to do this in small chunks and that you need to respect each other along the way. So we need to make that clear, because there have been, very few surpringly, who have criticized you for that and there have been some who have been vocal with questions that you're a plant by the uh JonBenét's family, other people, so we want to make that very clear, and on top of which, I was honored to meet Lou Smit. I didn't know it but he's a former Chicagoian like I am, but he's a Sox fan and I'm a Cub fan...we joked about that. anybody that know chicago knows that there is a line that is drawn from southside to northside but they're all Chicagoians and I thought that represented Lou Smit and I in this case and that we were both straight-talking mid-westerners looking for truth. It was a pleasure to meet him, and I'm glad you brought that up, Xxxxx, before we end today.

Bridget: I wanted to say also that I wanted to thank everybody who has been so kind and generous to me, who have sent letters with support, cards, a lady sent me girafffes (?) and her favorite book...

Mame: There have been soooo many people that have reached out that you haven't been able to properly thank , but incredible, right?

Bridget: Right. but the people who sent donations in, I did not have enough money to go back to Boulder, Colorado , and that was in a fund, and when I asked for the money, she wired the money to wherever I was at, and made it possible for me to go back to Boulder.

Mame: Right, those donations, were not much even to total, that's what allowed you to get the financial backing to get here and to meet with the Boulder police again.

Bridget: So I wanted to thank everybody for that, and there's been some incredible support for me there.

Mame: right

Bridget:And I'd like people to know I'm not disappearing into the woodwork . I believe very strongly in what I'm doing and that is to protect two little girls who need protecting.

Mame: Jon Benét doesn't need protecting anymore, although we'd like the people who did this to her to stand up and be charged with this horrific crime.

Bridget: and I would also like say still that it was my opinion that if JonBenét had lived through that awful terrible night and gotten psychological help she might could have come forward with her own information, I believe she would have been looked at the same way I have been looked at.

Mame: I agree

Bridget: and it's also my hope in doing this that two little girls can see that Yes, somebody spoke out, and Yes, it can be done, and Yes, people will listen to you. It is my greatest hope that somewhere along down the line there's other people who know what happened and I hope they'll be able to have a voice also.

Mame: You told me early on that you hoped your voice might bring another person's voice that had knowledge of the same information, and probably more than you have, and also what we're seeing now is other victims coming forward, not involved with you personally, or your abusers, but other abusers. Right?

Bridget: that's correct. I just want to thank everyone out there. and I am going to be making some things available

Mame: right, right...and you started today. I know there are other writers and investigators who are interested in following the road. I also want to get your permission if possible, that we had heard one very strong supporter of yours continues to be the prosecutor of your case that was successfully prosecuted back then.

Bridget: yes

Mame:it's a huge voice

Bridget: yes, it is

Mame: we thank you, and know how tired you are, how long a week and half it's been