Peter Boyles Show - Monday, September 28, 1998
8. "I'm up"
Posted by Byron on 04:32:43 9/28/98
Pb - Here's a guy who started backing away from this investigation a few months ago. I've been told he would go to the R house and pray every day. There's not one moment in the letter where he says why. It's like me saying to you...
Caller- This man is being paid by the Ramseys.
PB - They are great pretenders, and I think he connected with them on a spiritual basis. I don't think Newsweek got the letter from AH. The question I have is, how did that letter get to SKO?
Caller - The man is a dupe.
PB - I think 2020 did a good piece. If you saw the first story they did with Michael Bynum...maybe they're trying to buy their way back in. You just look at this stuff...in the beginning of this, he sends a letter to PR. We'll have Craig Silverman up in a bit. The letter is out today in the News and the Post.
10. "Good morning Panico"
Posted by Byron on 04:42:42 9/28/98
playing the tape of JR talking about his new mission.
PB - JR, no longer interested in finding the murderer of his daughter, now he's going to change the media. (In the previous segment, as the computer was warming up, PB said that he had heard that Lou Smit listens to his show every morning, and that he was trying to get him on, and that he was the big "Get".)
PB - I really believe there is an October surprise.
Caller - What did you think of Bugliosi's analysis?
PB - I think it was right on, you can't accuse them both... (Isn't it too bad Bugliosi isn't the prosecutor in this case...)
Posted by Panico on 04:49:29 9/28/98
Sure is early huh, Byron? Playing tape of John saying make a difference with the media.
PB: John Ramsey no longer interested in finding the murderer of his daughter--he's now going to change the media. More things swarming around the GJ which resumes tomorrow.
Caller: I agree with you, 20/20 was very well put together. The whole thing is disturbing to me. His resignation---for him to conclude it is an outsider
PB: To have all of that--I've said I believe there is an Oct surprise coming--and there is more yet to come. He can't put them out and say one of them did it--you decide which. Talking about book Helter Skelter
Caller: They killed the Grahams, put them in trunk and dumped in lagoon..... I actually saw, when they were catching Stephanie Stearn--- no this isn't Helter Sketler--it's another one... A Clinton caller
9. "Reporting for duty at 5:27 am"
Posted by Panico on 04:33:05 9/28/98
PB and Caller
PB: Why would Smit say he wanted his letter kept confidential? Whatever Alex is, he's not a fool.
Caller: This is Ramsey spin.
PB: Media is giving it a lot of play. How did that letter get into the hands of the media that is supportive of Ramseys. 20/20 may have been trying to buy their way back in with their show last night. They brought in Foster on the handwriting. He's going to have some problems with this because he sent a letter to Patsy in the beginning. We'll get Craig Silverman up in a little bit.
Posted by Byron on 04:55:08 9/28/98
PB - (intro to new segment) Did you watch 2020? 2020 called this the perfect crime. (he quotes JR's speech from the crock about the events of the night...we went to bed, got up, etc.) They never went to bed...PR had her make-up on and the same clothes from the night before. Then they talked about the lack of fingerprints on the note, which I'd heard about before but it had never been broadcast. And then something I'd never heard before, that splinters from the paintbrush were found in her vagina. Inside Edition will be here this morning.
Posted by Byron on 05:04:32 9/28/98
(playing segment from Steve Thomas segment)
PB - We'll come up with a series of guests. They're playing the news, and the announcer said (surprise, surprise) that Hal Haddon is now requesting that the BPD look elsewhere and for the intruder, citing Lou Smit's letter.
Posted by Panico on 04:59:35 9/28/98
PB: 20/20 called the Ramsey murder the perfect crime. Do you think it's the perfect crime? They reported Patsy had on the same clothes and makeup when the PD got there. The same as she had on at Fleet Whites. Also the fact that they believe the other half of the paint brush--that splinters of the paint brush were found in the vaginal area. I had never heard that before. I thot 20/20 did a very good job. Now Hal Haddon is demanding they leave his client alone. We have Inside Edition coming up here this morning. Playing tape from 20/20 Thomas talking and reporter saying the day he resigned he sent flowers to her grave. PB saying he thought they did a wonderful job.
Posted by Panico on 05:19:01 9/28/98
PB: A lot of turns of events in the Ramsey case. Resignation of Lou Smit carries with it a tremendous amount of politics. Introducing Craig Silverman
CS: It really is something. I think if Zippergate wasn't here, this would be taking over the national news.
PB: A lot of people have predicted that once GJ convened, a lot of stuff would fly quick--and some would be spin
CS: The spin is going so fast it's making everyone dizzy There were a few new facts on 20/20--it's just common sense that people can recognize handwriting.
PB: Foster would talk to them, but the problem they'll have with him is that he originally contacted Ramseys
CS: That really does cast some suspicion on him. Understand that there is no judge at GJ and if Hunter wants to put him on--he can do that
PB: I don't know if he ever sent a letter clearing Patsy, but I think he sent a letter offering his services. We believe he has said that.....now he believes Patsy wrote the note. I thot incrementally 20/20 laid this out. The first time I had heard that there were splinters of the paint brush handle
CS: There's so much speculation out there that this was accidental. The scream may be associated with the insertion of the stick.
PB: The paint brush was used as a garrote, the end broken off and placed back in the paint box. I'd never heard about the splinters.
CS: on the lack of handwriting, I don't find that provable--people think fingerprints adhere to every surface, but that's not necessarily true
PB: One of the theories is that the letter writer reversed hands and wore gloves. I believe Patsy changed hands from right to left and wore gloves
CS: There's no evidence to that
PB: I know-- to wrap up last night, the other part was--Patsy not having changed her clothes from the night before and had make up on--that woman never went to bed
CS: I think that's terribly damaging
PB: Why would you have party clothes on? Why wouldn't you just have sweats on.... And Lou Smit--he won't say who he thought was guilty.
CS: Steve Thomas it seems has a purer motive than Lou Smit. Lou states it conclusively without giving any facts.
PB: Smit becomes close friends with Ramseys, I understand from a source that they even prayed together
CS: I've rarely seen anything more dishonest than his letter
PB: I read the letter again this morning--there is not one statement or one shred or one belief or one theory that supports that they're innocent and supports an intruder
CS: I showed it to my wife and she said, "Where are the facts?"
PB: I got a call last night that Smit is a big listener. One thing that Steve Thomas will do, given the opportunity is lay it out.
Posted by Panico on 05:35:41 9/28/98
Playing tape of Julie Hayden from Channel 7 news about paint brush.
PB: Julie's here. I understand you're doing some network work this am. I checked my notes, Lou joined force in March of '97. Lou says no one is actively looking for real murderer. But not one shred of reason why
JH; I think that's something you have to wonder about. And now Lou, who knows more about this case than anyone. If they have someone, they've certainly had enough opportunities to bring that out
CS: I've never seen anything like this. It is so dishonest--so unethical. This letter was meant to be released to the public
JH: Even the timing--and saying didn't want it to be released.
CS: What is Alex Hunter doing? Why would he want this released?
JH: I would imagine that Lou Smit does know absolutely everything about this case. He made it clear he's working for the Ramseys now. And what does he do but take all this info and turn it over to Ramseys. We heard reports all along that PD wasn't happy with Lou. It was clear Lou had bonded with Ramseys.
PB: Ann Bardach called him a senile old man He talks about his great partner--I think he's talking about Jesus Christ, anybody agree?
JH; Yes I've heard that he and Ramseys have prayed together.
CS: I found it funny when he said 'I believe I know this case better than anyone' I think you have to say at this point that Lou is #1 candidate--he appears to have been a mole working inside this investigation.
PB: How do I know now that everything wasn't Lou Smit?
JH; PD believed that for a long time. Everyone would be kinda quiet when Lou was espousing his theory--Craig, is it possible that PD would have had Lou sign such a statement?
CS: There was an express concern about that. In his letter he's saying that he's going tow ork for the Ramseys. Doesn't Lou have a 1st amendment right to speak out. There's so many issues raised by this. Thank heavens Fleet and Priscilla White haven't been working with Lou Smith--or that would have been turned over to Ramseys too. I know Mike Kane, and I think he's a straight shooter, but we have to look at who's been brot into this case.
PB: Will come back and talk about the politics of this case
Posted by Byron on 05:21:07 9/28/98
PB - The local news, a lot of turns in the R story. They followed it with an interview with ST, and the resignation of Lou Smit. Please say good morning to Craig Silverman. What a weekend.
CS - If Zippergate weren't taking the national stage, this would probably be the lead story. The spin is going so fast it's making everybody dizzy. The 2020 story was good. There was some new stuff.
PB - Donald Foster would talk to 2020, but he wouldn't take the next step. The problem they're going to have with him is that he originally called PR.
CS - Before the GJ, AH, if he wanted to put this in front of them, he can. I think it could come back to bite them.
PB - I thought 2020 laid the crime out well, including, the first time I had heard that there were splinters of the paint brush.
CS - Most people think this was accidental, with the head blow coming first, and then there's Cyril Wecht sort of out there by himself. The scream was from the insertion of this tip of the brush.
PB - The half that was snapped said "Made in Korea".
CS - The matching of these parts.
PB - I almost called you at home. I had never heard about the splinters. The lack of fingerprints on the note...
CS - I don't find that that probative. We know PR handled the note, and fingerprints don't always show up on everything.
PB - The other part of it was the first time PR hadn't changed her clothes.
CS - I think that is incredibly damning. Your little girl is kidnapped and you're going to be putting on make-up?
PB - I think Lou Smit did what he did because of what ST did.
CS - But Thomas has the professional ability to not say what his conclusions are.
PB - Not like Smit. I understand that he and the R's prayed together.
CS - I hope you're going to talk about the letter, because I think it is outrageous.
PB - One thing ST will do, he will lay it out for you. We'll take a pause, and be back to talk more about Smit's letter.
Posted by Byron on 05:39:04 9/28/98
Craig Silverman, and Julie Hayden are with us.
PB - I guess the set-up is just another twist in this story. Smit tells Newsweek that a dangerous killer is out there and that nobody is looking for them.
JH - There's not one shred of evidence in the letter to justify his theory.
PB - Have you ever seen an investigator switch sides?
CS - I have never seen anything so dishonest, so outrageous, so unprofessional in my life. LS wanted this letter to be made public. AH talked about how LS wanted the letter released. What is AH doing? Why would he want this letter released? This is so unprofessional.
JH - The BPD didn't want Lou Smit there, he was rammed down their throats. The police were really unhappy with him. He probably did have lots of information, and he was taking it straight to the Ramseys.
PB - As to his "partner", I believe this is Jesus Christ.
CS - It's obvious the R legal team trusted Smit. What information has been leaked, etc. I would say LS appears to have been the number one sieve to the media. He almost surely must have been the mole within the investigation.
JH - The police believed this for a long time. They thought for a bit that maybe he was just playing the devil's advocate.
CS - Susan Laurien expressed in a letter, it appears Smit is going to work for John and Patsy. Thank god Fleet and Pricilla haven't been cooperating with Hunter and Lou Smit, because you know it would have gone straight to the R team. If this is an indication of the outsiders Hunter has brought into this case... Now I know Michael Kane, and I think he's a straight shooter.
PB - I personally believe LS has bonded with the R's, he has prayed with them at the house.
Posted by Byron on 05:51:32 9/28/98
a few more minutes and it's all yours Panico. I'm sure glad I have my mini-radio for listening at work today.
PB - (reading from letter)The BPD has lots of dedicated people, and that they have been going in the wrong direction from day one.
CS - It's obvious that these two men are still on good terms (Smit and Hunter).
JH - I got this call about the resignation last week. I spoke with Susan Laurien and she souonded depressed.
PB - She's done a great job during this, hasn't she?
CS - One of these two men are lying about this. Only one of two men could have leaked this to the media, either Hunter or Smit.
PB - How tough is this to figure out? When it's 9 and Newsweek, I x out AH.
CS - They could have gotten the cream of the crop in law enforcement, and they get this guy?
JH - If there were problems with LS, why didn't you fire him?
PB - In a strange way, LS becomes the Fuhrman.
JH - You have to ask, what are his motivations?
PB - I have heard, he's been away from this for 35 days, his wife is ill. This tells me the R's will be indicted by this GJ.
JH - I don't think anyone anticipated anything like this.
Posted by Panico on 05:51:27 9/28/98
Tape from 20/20: Foster identified the writer of the note as Patsy.
PB: I thot it was a very good investigative story. One more bit on Lou Smit letter. On bottom paragraph of 1st page, he says something that is baffling. .."...since day 1 they've been going in the wrong direction"
JH: It took awhile for that to happen.
CS: Who else has made this bizarre statement? It's apparent from the friendly tone of the letter and Alex has the greatest DAs office---
PB: I'm not sure Alex and Ramseys are on good terms.
JH: We got a call...when I called DAs office, Suzanne said she doesn't believe the letter. She just sounded tired.
PB: When Alex makes this statement asking Lou in essence to give the letter out and Smit says no---and suddenly Channel 9...
CS: The only ones that could have released the letter is Alex or Lou Smit.
PB: I was told that Lou Smit has a family relative, a close family relative, who is almost acting as his press agent. And now Smit claiming he's going to work for Ramseys. And seeing the relationship Ramseys have developed with a couple of media people. I X out Alex Hunter--I think he's smarter than that. I think this was orchestrated by Ramseys with total cooperation from Lou Smit
CS: They could have gotten the cream of the crop
PB: You know when the trial starts, Lou Smit will be a witness for the defense
CS: You got to have a special prosecutor. It all comes back to Alex Hunter
JH: Obvious question to Alex would be "Why did you wait for him to resign?"
PB: He's gonna be the guy that be the fly in the ointment. He's the guy they're gonna put on trial.
JH; What is his motivation? Why did he wait until in the midst of the GJ
PB: I've been told he's been away from the case for quite awhile, his wife is dying...
JH: You have to wonder why he didn't have time to work for DAs office and now he has time to do this. I don't think anyone anticipated anything like this.
Posted by Panico on 06:01:02 9/28/98
PB: What are you doing to be doing on 7 with this Julie? Were you involved with ABC with this? JH: A little bit. I hope I helped a little on the investigative part.
PB: I had never read about the splinters of paint brush found in her vaginal area
JH: Yes and I confirmed this with ABC, the implication being that the paint brush handle was used for staging
CS: It might be true, but I'm not sure that was part of the staging
PB: And I'm not sure that the scream the neighbors heard wasn't Patsy. Carol McKinley joins us coming up
24. "outa here"
Posted by Byron on 06:02:06 9/28/98
PB - Wrapping things up.
JH - We're going to be chasing some of the implications.
PB - Were you involved with ABC on this? I had never read, seen, or heard before about the splinters.
JH - ABC requires double and triple checking of their stories, and I hope I was able to help them somewhat. Apparently the paintbrush, the implication was that it was used as a part of staging.
CS - 2020 seemed to link that as part of the scream. We can be assured that whoever did this is one twisted person.
PB - I'm not sure the scream they heard wasn't Patsy. (It's all yours Panico)
Posted by Panico on 06:26:23 9/28/98
NOTE: This message was edited 06:26:23, 9/28/98
Tape of John saying people think.....
PB: Then we heard last night...tape from 20/20 telling about what Patsy was wearing. No one believes they got any sleep, let alone went to bed. Ramsey story really heats up. They come back with an excellent piece--that lead so many people to believe that John or Patsy took the life of their daughter. We'll begin with someone who knows this story perhaps better than anyone--Carol McKinley.
CM: I thot it was well done. When someone's talking--2 lead investigators--you know Thomas must have given them most of that information. I imagine they're trying to keep GJ on track and they're making it a side show of a circus. It's also interesting...Suzanne says there are 2 sentences added to the letter in today's paper. She says it has to do with seeking justice for JonBenet and the family. Another sentence says sometimes you have investigate a lot of paths. It's kinda like the sentences were added to make the letter make more sense. PB: You're saying the letter in the paper has been altered--
CM: It sounds like someone told him to make it a little more clear
PB: Do you have any sense that it was someone from the media that helped him do this?
PB: Do you think anyone in Denver media helped him with that letter?
CM; I don't know, but I would think that someone who knows writing may have helped him. You know, he has been writing the family since they moved to Atlanta.
PB: We're talking about Lou Smit---I was told that he listens every morning---for Heavens sakes, pick up the phone and call. But he never tells why he believes Ramseys are innocent. But in 5th paragraph down he says he has this great partner. I think he means Jesus Christ. Do you think the partner he refers to is Jesus?
PB: I've heard he went to the Ramseys house and got down on his knees and prayed and I thik there were some times Ramseys joined him
CM: This letter has no indication that he was focusing on them at all. And we've got Thomas on there. You have to wonder if the jurors know about this---
PB: How could they not?
CM: I agree.
PB: I think Mike Kane will tell them they have to stay on track
CM: You have to wonder what's ahead... Playing tape about the forensic expert says a sliver from brush found in genital area
PB: I never heard that
CM: I never heard that either. It seems like someone tried to deliberately hurt her
PB: We always wondered why they would make trips down to CBI--we've had private conversations about that. Silverman said it's part of the staging. I'm not convinced scream wasn't Patsy.
CM: I'm not either. What you saw last night all has to be put together.
PB: Did you see conclusion Bulloisi came to
CM: He did a good job. How do you think Steve Thomas came off?
PB: I think he did an excellent job.
CM: Alex Hunter and office asked him to release the letter Friday and he said no. Why did he play this game?
PB: It's orchestrated--it's spun. But I want to know his motives.
CM: I think his motive could be that he's tired of seeing everything go the other way.
PB: And now he takes all the info that he's garnered in working for Alex Hunter---if this was done on a national level it would be called treason. If he's going to work for John and Patsy-- He tells us in this letter he's going to work for them. It's like me going to work for North Korea. I still say the October surprise--something that will put this away.
CM: GJ tomorrow. I would think maybe Linda Arndt will be in again.
PB: Why would she go before GJ and bring her own lawyer
CM; I would think she wants to protect herself. The whole thing is nuts--we all know that. It could be that she made one mistake, and not the rest.
Posted by Panico on 06:36:57 9/28/98
PB: Welcoming Cyril Wecht. On 20/20--I thought of you immediately. None of us had heard about the slivers of wood..what does that mean?
CW: I've never heard it either. It would not be a forensic pathologist that would pick this up except in the autopsy. Let's talk about this report--taking the words they used. A sliver can be any size, however, there is no evidence of any laceration--what we have is a very tiny abrasion and just a few drops of blood. So in my opinion there was no piece of wood inserted or there would have been more significant evidence. It think we have a transfer of evidence. I think perp was wearing gloves--and using brush for garrote, and the piece could have been transferred with massage of the area. It's significant to tie these 2 things together. Ram team will say 'so what?' I think that's what they're talking about. When they talking slivers, don't think something big. Didn't talk about this in autopsy. (Talking about a kind of lens--couldn't catch it) it could be then these slivers of wood.
PB: In laymans terms, when the paint brush was snapped in half, it was conceivable that---do you think someone took that half of the paint brush and placed it in her vagina?
CW: No, I think the stick was broken, and onto the glove go tiny slivers of wood--and then during the course of the sexual game, let's say with a fingers inserted into vagina, the slivers were transferred from the glove. I guess they'll still stand by the statement--that there is no evidence of sexual activity. I'm saying don't ever do into a hospital with a child and this kind of evidence, you'll be in jail.
PB: I want to look at the psychological part of this. How do we make the connection. We do know that Lou's wife is dying from cancer. Who survived cancer? Patsy. Dan Caplis has great insight into this. Chuck Green does also.
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