Peter Boyles Show - Tuesday, September 29, 1998
"Peter Boyles - Tuesday"
Posted by Byron on 04:33:00 9/29/98
Little sleep here, but I'm ready to attempt to report. Playing tape of the former housekeeper about McDonalds "fat" comment.
PB - Each time you think it can't get stranger, it gets stranger. I'm sure you know by now, there was a fax received, from JR, but it was really received from Hal Haddon, it has their letterhead on top. Last night, A&E airs yet another version, that means there must be four or five different ones. I wonder how the folks at Channel 9 feel about that. JR has sent out this quote, statement. I think he's telling the governor, that a vicious child killer still walks your streets. I ask you this morning, do you believe the person who took JBR's life still walks the streets of Boulder, Denver, Adams County, etc? -Don't do it for JBR,-(reading from the letter) -So we have provided fodder for your talk-shows-. That was for the news media. I have so much to talk about this morning. There are at least two or three different Lou Smit letters out there. The fifth paragraph of Lou Smit's letter, (about agenda) (reads differences) -The case tells me there is substancial- Do you follow what I'm saying here? There is a fine hand at work in this letter. It's just amazing. Did Hal Haddon write Lou Smit's letter? That's what Chuck Green thinks. Carol McKinley thinks it was someone in the media. We will have the cast of characters with us this morning.
Montana- I've followed the case extensively. The quote was "a neighbor could have heard a cry from the basement". If you look at the letter, between the un and the harmed, there is a space. That signifies lying. I'll tell you something that hasn't been in the news, but the people at the salon I go to say that PR, who used to go there, said she was scared for her life a month before.
PB - I haven't heard anything like that.
Montana - I've heard that JR and AH were in PromiseKeepers.
PB - Nah, that's not true. I heard JR toyed with being in it. I think Alex in on his fourth marriage. The release of this statement for JR, that there's a killer out there, do you really believe that there's a stalking killer out there? I was up late taking apart the Lou Smit letter. I'm here to tell you there are three versions out there.
Montana - Isn't this to create reasonable doubt. I think we'll hear all of the pieces we haven't heard before. If it was an average American, there would have already been a trial.
PB - 'but sadly it does take money to protect your rights' and we all know that within two days they'd hired their second lawyer and a public relations firm. Montana - I think PR has serious mental instability.
PB - Do you believe? Remember Leslie Durgin? Even she said there wasn't a killer out there. I want to talk to the mayor of Golden, the mayor of Lakewood...Do you believe that killer is out there? What do you make of all these different versions of Lou Smit's letter? Did you watch A&E's yet another version of the spinumentary? A whole new narrator...and you don't think you're being had? I'm telling you man, you've got to watch them. They're out there, and they're trying to spin your head.
Posted by Byron on 04:53:40 9/29/98
Bob from Boulder - When this first happened, they weren't exactly keeping kids off the playgrounds.
PB - Someone who would go into a home, and molest and kill, that is the ultimate nightmare. JR insists a very dangerous killer is out there, do you believe that?
Bob - Bill Curtis. Here are a bunch of questions I have.
PB - For those of us who don't know, Bill Curtis was the narrator. They've totally changed it again. I was invited into a private home to hear it (the original crock airing) I remember Norm Early telling me,"You're going to replay yourself, and they're going to sue you?", after they stole you from your show. Bob - I thought it sounded updated.
PB - We've been told they have from 14 - 16 hours. There's actually a part of the film, that we never saw, PR is playing the JBR song, and she crumbles. Bob - What about leaving to get the mail?
PB - He didn't. That was from Vanity Fair, and it was incorrect. The snow on the lawn story. The R's must have a phone tree. The problem gets back to the first couple of hours, they got a bug expert, ichni, no that's a fish, arachniphobia, no that's a fear, (entomologist Peter?). Could someone have come through that window? They always gave the R's the benefit of the doubt. That "movie" was aimed as portraying the R's as innocent. I'm trying to get ahold of Bill Curtis, hell, he doesn't know anything, he was probably handed a script. Remember OJ, when they took down all the picture of white women? The magnificent 7 interview, that's not a press conference, they said no one was allowed to ask about the murder, but as soon as they sat down, they denied being a part of it.
It was either a good paycheck, or he (Bill Curtis) didn't know what he was doing. He's done such good work in the past, Sam Giancana, the Kennedy Assassination... One of the critiques,if he had all this, why didn't he deliver it when Henry Lee and the others were there? Where the hell was Lou Smit? I was quoting an old homicide cop, and he said that was the most unprofessional thing that can be done. It looks like they've totally iced Michael Tracey. What the hell was Bill Curtis doing that stuff for?
3. "Milton, you're welcome"
Posted by Byron on 05:25:35 9/29/98
PB - Never slept. (referring to PR)
Caller - Smit always starts off each paragraph talking about his credentials.
PB - Chuck Green put that together, and he'll be on soon. The problems are legion. Last night A&E aired ANOTHER version. He was the voice last night, and it was crazy. They added some people and took some people out (my observations are on the A&E thread)
Chuck Green - There are at least four or five versions. One of the things amazing about Smit's letter, are all the contradictions. They do tell us that the killer out there (R letter) and they know more than we do, because they say there's DNA evidence.
PB - You've worked this story. The killer out there.
CG - No one can deny that there's a killer out there. He doesn't cite any evidence.
PB - It's a conclusion without facts.
Caller - When you tell the truth, how often do you have to adjust your story. The 911 tape, the documentary, etc. new caller - The Wall Street Journal, in the entertainment section ran a review of the A&E. They summed it up, why did the R's have to hire lawyers and a pr firm. Everyone who's a businessman knows about spinning. A good set of lawyers can put together a good campaign.
PB - They have always spoken to the grand jurors.
CG - Remember how they weren't going to present this, it was a condition, before the GJ.
PB - Michael Tracey, when he was trying to lure me into it, said you have my word that it won't be aired before the GJ.
PB - I think Tracey is in disgrace.
CG - He's being investigated by the university.
Caller - But Bill Curtis, he exudes credibility.
PB - I want to get him on the show tomorrow, and ask him how he was lured into this.
CG - The R's constantly complain they haven't gotten a fair shake in the media, but their letter is front page news.
PB - Carol McKinley up next. (reading from the letter)
CG - Didn't JR once say Boulder was a safe community?
PB - First it was "hold your babies close", then it was a "safe community", then it was unsafe.
5. "Panico, where are you?"
Posted by Byron on 05:48:02 9/29/98
I've got another 20 minutes or so, and it looks like another all-Ramsey day.
PB - As everyone who has followed the R cae, and even those who haven't, yesterday was a real watershed day in all of this. The GJ sits down again today in Boulder, all of these things happening at the same time.
CG - The timing...they know that Steve Thomas was going to be on 2020, and I think the Lou Smit letter was timed to counteract that, and obviously JR's statement was timed to go along with Smit. This has been rehearsed for a year and a half.
Craig Silverman - The big question for me is, who is LS and why did he do what he did? I was happy to hear you read that statement (about the cop calling it unprofessional)
PB - I get the opinion from LS's letter that he is going to work directly with the R's.
CG - He has declared himself. The Denver Post says he signed a disclosure form, and it may prohibit him from assisting the R's in any major way.
CS - I looked at a faxed copy of that employment agreement, and it doesn't appear it's worth the paper it's written on. There are no specifics or consequences. I take LS at his word.
CG - What do you mean by confidentiality, to quote Bill Clinton.
PB - That's the bizarre part.
CS - Susanne Laurian confirmed the versions are different.
PB - One is the one that hit the internet. It isn't a major change. The fifth paragraph of the letter (reading about agenda again). Carol McKinley won't be on until 7:15.
CS - The other interesting thing is that it was first put on the internet by a friend of theirs named Jameson.
PB - Yeah, their internet butt-boy Jameson. We've got versions of this letter...Alex, you're in such a difficult position.
CS - That makes more sense.
PB - Chuck, you believe, he had the help of a law firm.
CS - If you make grammatical errors, you have to live with those errors. Why are Hal Haddon and the lawyers calling in all the chips on this?
PB - (reading) Don't do this for JonBenet...It will happen again...He also does this weird thing, offering 100 thousand dollars, I think he's luring in a crazy there. That is real strange.
6. "last segment from me"
Posted by Byron on 06:01:32 9/29/98
PB - We're talking about the release of another letter, which comes through the law offices. Is this going to damage the case?
CS - I think it might. LS is armed with lots of information.
CG - I think the Ramseys have wired the DA's office anyway, so they know more than the public. There's talk about DNA. Haddon has complained about leaks in this case, but you didn't hear him complaining about LS's letter.
PB - (lists media spinmeisters) I find all of this stuff just fascinating. What will Mike Kane tell the grand jurors?
CS - He probably won't bring it up. You have to assume that some of them have heard some of this stuff, but some have been mindful about staying away from the media.
CG - Have the R's testify as to the critical points. It's too little too late. They should have convened this GJ 18 months ago.
(I'm outta here - hope Panico takes over soon - more to come)
10. "I'm here but"
Posted by Panico on 06:26:00 9/29/98
not well at all.
Heard Chuck Green say the only way they could keep Lou Smit from counseling Ramseys would be to subpeona them right now and have them come in for the most important questioning immediately and finish other stuff with them later. PB is talking about letter from John Ramsey.
PB: Carol McKinley will be joining us and will be talking about the slivers. Last nite, yet another version of spinumentary---think Chuck and I have seen 5 versions now. Trying to get Bill Curtis, narrator at A & E, on.
PB: Carol, did you see A & E last night. Did you notice there's another narrator?
CM: I don't know what to make of any of that. I thought the more interesting thing about it was the timing with GJ going on. It's unbelievable the counterpoint going on out there. The Lou Smit letter is interesting. The Thomas interview is interesting. All coming out as the jurors are trying to focus on the case.
PB: You're the one that broke the story about Smit's letter being changed
CM: I've seen several different versions. Either he gave the Rocky Mts News an edited version or it just looks like there's different edited versions around. It's not like they're blockbuster sentences.
PB: It's not like it makes significant differences--it's like someone cleaned it up. Craig said the only way to know is to have Alex release the original letter and..
CM: I don't think Lou Smit will be able to work with Ramsesys because of contract. I talked to ....... I know Lou writes them all the time (Rams)
PB: My source, and it's almost impeccable, says that they got together and prayed together. Yesterday Inside Edition came on and they were trying to get a segment with Lou. Mrs. Smit came out of the house and said "You tell Peter Boyles that I'm not sick"
CM: And that's the story we got--that's why he left the case, because she was even near death.
PB: That's why I waited for you--you've been close to this. They said Lou was not there, or didn't come out of the house. I made a phone call to a source last night and he said "Man that's what we were told" I wasn't the only one that heard that
CM: That's right.
PB: Asked Inside Edition producer how she looked, she said she looked great.
CM: About the splinter.. From what I understand it's not plural--and it's microscopic. The coroner talked about taking out a bio-------material--- apparently this wood splinter is a match to the paint brush handle, what that mean is that ----it was found on the abrasion on her hymen----that's the piece of tissue they took out---the person that broke the paint brush handle and was digitally penetrated. They're saying she was not penetrated with paint brush handle, but with finger---and maybe with a glove and there's where the sliver came from. It's pretty graphic stuff, it's not a smoking gun. It's what they believe is part of the staging. It's a tough thing to talk about. This describes the evil person and the evil that happened that night.
PB: What effect do you think all of the letters will have?
CM: Even if they know, can they forget about it?
Posted by Panico on 06:40:07 9/29/98
PB: Hopefully Greg McCreary and Bill Curtis tomorrow.
Caller: About Lou Smits things, the different versions, maybe somebody is trying to convince Lou that he needs a co-author down the line.
PB: I don't know--if what Carol says is true, sentences in and out, and I can show 3 different versions floating around.
Caller: At the very least, it's a diversion with GJ. And Michael Tracy is not the narrator anymore--it's aimed right at the jurors
PB: Yeah, I would wonder what A & E paid to get that film. I've heard Channel 9 paid 6, 9, 12 thousand---it ain't a million. The most significant part is Michael Tracy sat up here in my office and said the one demand J & P have on this film is that it will not air until after the GJ. They told Chuck Green too. And the thing has aired 3 times.
Caller: What makes me mad--I'm a grandmother---and when JR appeals to our common sense? I say where's his common sense? How could they do this to us--saying there's a killer on the loose?
PB: JR tells us in his statement that the killer is out there. Quoting from JR's letter "don't do this for JB---do it for others---this wil happen again--meanwhile my family knows a vicious killer still walks the street" Another caller: There's no killer out there--they're in Atlanta
PB: And John says he knows that. Well, John, if you know that--go to the GJ and tell them!
Caller: Can they sequester the jury with all this stuff coming out?
PB: I don't think so--the jurors have heard about it---we'll try to get Dan Caplis in here this am--he says he doesn't think this will effect the trial--and I believe a trial will take place. But you can believe that Haddon will walk Lou Smit right in the courtroom.
15. "If I die"
Posted by Panico on 06:49:05 9/29/98
this am (and I feel like I could) would you please put on my tombstone--"She died reporting the Peter Boyles Show" This is the worst virus bug I've ever had--it's all over Denver. I'm either crazy to be here typing or looking for medal of honor! While waiting---did you guys really get that??? Lou Smit's wife is not even sick!!!! What a scumbag he is! So the jams got the scoop on his letter??? Tells a volume, doesn't it? He's on Clinton now----I'll be back if there's more.
Posted by Panico on 07:00:03 9/29/98
Caller asking why someone would do something like that--bedwetting?
PB: There's a group that think molestation is the motive--and there's a group that believe bedwetting brought it on. There is no outsider. Greg McCreary coming up
PB: John has actually released a letter thru his lawyers. Joining us, Chuck and I call him our godfather--he's the profiler of record--- Greg McCreary. One of the statements that struck me, he says "To the killer---we will find you---the reward still stands.....we have been told the authorities have your DNA---the $100 will be paid to whoever you want--you know you will kill again..." What's he doing with that?
GM: For those who think the Rams are innocent, it's just a straight shot. For those who think they are guilty, it's just another attempt to re-focus the investigation. The importat thing to remember is that all the investigation done -- there's been no evidence of an intruder--that's there's no one out there....
PB: Is this a honey spot?
GM: Yeah, that's the danger of reward money. It's a lure that could bring unstable folks out of the woodwork----
PB: Let a crazy walk into PD and say "I did it"
GM Those sorts of things always muddy the water--it's a downside to a case like this. Greg will stay for 10 minutes after the news
Posted by Panico on 07:21:47 9/29/98
PB: Are you afraid a killer is loose ad walks your neighborhood? That's what John tells us...Greg is one of the men that invented profiling. This all begins with Lou Smit resignation letter, in all the years on the job, have you ever seen a detective do what Lou did?
GM; No, I've never seen it. Anyone who tries to predict what is going to happen is like a fool--with all these strange circumstances.
PB: Bob Grant has made a statement this morning..."you just don't do that, no matter who you are"
GM: This is an extremely unethical thing to do.
PB: Now John says a killer is on the loose again--that Boulder isn't safe.
GM: This is one of a number of things that has been circulated by Ramseys--a disgruntled employee. The only thing that's been consistent with them is the inconsistencies.
PB: Did you ever see a kidnapper kill the victim and leave them in the house?
GM: The FBI just finished a study of child homicides--and I looked over the research and talked to some of the agents involved---this issue of staging--I asked "What does this show" and they found out of 545 cases, in 16 cases it was staged to look like a kidnapping--the parents have murdered the child in 100% of the cases. WOWOWOWOW. So PD is certainly not wrong focusing on the parents. It was always a parental figure invovled in the homicide.
PB: Last nite A & E airs a whole nother version of spinumentary. Michael Tracy is no longer the voice over. What do you do with that? Is it significant?
GM: Not really. What you really have to pay attention to are the facts. Denying the murder by itself doesn't mean anything. Killers will deny. Don't start with a theory and shape and bend the facts. Wherever the facts take you, that's where you go. It was an uncritical approach--they just let the people tell their story.
PB: When Michael Tracy approached me and Chuck and asked us to be part of this, he sat right here and said "This will not air until after GJ does its work" Does that surprise you?
GM: No---people who think they're innocent will see it as people trying to get their story out.
PB: John's statement--the killer is still out there--- what do you make of all of that?
GM: Let's go back and look at how many cases like this----it's minimal---it's zero. They don't stop at their own violition--they keep going. That's what you look for--when that pattern isn't there, you're probably not looking....
PB: Pam Paugh has made a couple of appearances and they're really bizarre, Pam says she's never asked her sister...there are people out there who are jealous of Rams..that they were King and Queen of Boulder... that the Rams were like the Kennedys and people wanted to destroy that. Is it conceivable that you and I would be brothers and you lost your child and in almost 2 years I never asked you who you thought murdered?
GM Very strange
PB: In all your history, have you ever seen a true victim family move away?
GM: Generally they stay, they're commited to the investigation and situation--the house becomes sort of a shrine to the child-- unusally the PD can't get them out from under foot and it's been the opposite in this case. A case now, a woman whose daughter was murdered almost 10 years ago---we know who did it but can't prove it--and to this day she calls every week to see if they've found anything.
Posted by Panico on 07:36:28 9/29/98
Caller: On Jay Lenno last night. He told about a detective that had been missing for 20 years and they finally found him---up in Boulder.
PB: When we were doing live from Boulder, and 2 black and whites pulled up and one of them rolled down the window and gave us a thumbs up--that was kewel.
PB: Hopefully tomorrow Bill Curtis, narrator of spinumentary last night.
Posted by Panico on 08:05:42 9/29/98
While waiting---hey g2, that's real neat of you, but you already sent me this wonderful beanie baby shark who watches me every time I report, and that box of candy (altho either Mrs B or Chris ended up with that---and that's OK--they certainly deserve it!) Think I have your email addy--I'll check.
PB: Remember Dr. Hodges who did that incredible work? We've just spoken with him, he has worked on Lou Smit's letter and he will be with us tomorrow. He said "Peter, I understand Lou Smit"
Caller: When he originally contacted Ramseys, they didn't want to use him--and I think that's important. I contacted the hotline several times and was never called back--yet John says they're still looking.
PB: Yeah, John says the reward is still out there. I've talked to several others that have also called the hotline and never got an answer.
Caller: I contacted the authorities and none of them had any information on it.
PB: Tomorrow Hodes comes back and tells us what he thinks about Smits version.
Caller: Another feeling I've had in the past 24 hours is that Smit has been the mole from the beginning
PB: Has he been the conduit?
Caller: How was it he was chosen to be hired?
PB: He was Alex Hunter's hire.
PB: Maybe Shake can do some work on this today--contacting mayors in surrounding communities and ask them if they're afraid of a killer on the loose. John says "if the killer isn't caught, it will happen again. My family knows a vicious killer still walks the street"
Another caller: You know, I heard some people saying on the street, all John and Patsy have to do is come forward and say they're sorry (tongue in cheek)
Another caller: A year or so ago, you got on my case pretty hard comparing this to Simpson case. What's your opinion on this now?
PB: I don't think it's like the Simpson case.
Caller: You got the investigators quitting.
PB: A lot of money has been spent on this
Caller: Why is GJ only meeting twice a week?
PB: They have jobs--
Caller: What about Ramseys and their bankroll?
PB: Whatever money Rams have spent is their money. I'm telling you GJ don't operate as regular juries. My understand is that first day they were there, they attempted to figure out what everybody's schedule is---
Caller: As Joe Citizen,---it's been 2 years. The only people in the house were the family. The nation is getting sick and tired of this
PB: That's why we've worked so hard to keep the story alive
Caller: And you've done a grand job. Another caller: I have question I've never had an answer to. I've heard that they changed JB's clothes after she was dead
PB: Fleet and Priscilla see her dressed one way, John and Pats---say they put her to bed--there was never anything said by them that they changed her clothes. At what conclusion do you arrive?
Caller: That it's a setup
PB: You heard the grand master McCreary say that there is nothing to support intruder theory.
Caller says she is Sheri Lang, Lou Smit's niece--
PB: Why did you wait till end of the show to call?
Caller: She is not dying.
PB: Does she have cancer?
Caller: Yes, but she is not dying
PB: We've heard that for the longest time. What kind of cancer does she have?
Caller: She's not dying--that's all I called to say.
PB: This has been reported all this time and you're just now calling in to say it isn't true that she's dying? Where did you hear this?
Caller: My aunt and uncle listen to your show all the time
PB: Lou's wife told Inside Edition producer that she's not sick. That came from the DAs office. Let's do this again? Does your aunt have cancer?
Caller: I won't discuss that. All I can say is that my aunt is not dying.
PB: All things aside, does your aunt have cancer?
Caller: All I can say is my aunt is not dying. I have to go and get my daughter to ballet
PB: Does your aunt have cancer?
Caller: My aunt is not dying
PB: All I'm doing is taking what we've been told, ---did your aunt call Alex Hunter and tell them uit isn't true? Are you going to call Fox News and tell them? So you've never listened to this show until today and you're saying we're uninformed. You didn't know where on the dial the show is
Caller: I'm not going to be combative with you
PB: You are being combative. You're saying I'm uninformed.
Caller: And that's all I have to say. I have to go -------------- WOWOW They even ran the show over 4 minutes into Tom Martino's show for that call!!!!! Sounds to me like the whole Smit family is related to Ramseys and Clinton!! That was some scoop!!! I think Peter about fell off his chair!!!